System 15 for sale

[Trigger]

http://cgi.ebay.com/1974-Moog-Model-15- ... 173wt_1141

Get your wallets out, folks!!

[EricK]

Okay ladies and gentlemen. The bets are now open.

Listing will be relisted in how many days?

[EricK]

Oh the seller has the secret of the Moog sound nailed down also.

Nice pics though.

[LivePsy]

And the shipping cost! I hope that pays for 2 federal agents to sit it between them on a plane.

On the other hand, $35,000 now is more affordable to me than the brand new price was back in '74...

So sad that only the old gear is any good

[HB3]

Hey, what's to worry about? It's only in Hong Kong....

[CZ Rider]

The one that got away, with a BIN of $4,250.00?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 41577991a7

For $35.000.00 this one looks like a better deal.
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/ms ... 50758.html

[Trigger]

On the other hand, $35,000 now is more affordable to me than the brand new price was back in '74...

Here's a little perspective:
According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, $3495.00USD (list price for a Sys 15 in 1974) adjusted for inflation in today's dollars would sell for $15,842. So where does the other $20K come from? Does a Moog modular (even a later model in apparently decent shape) really command that kind of price? I guess all it takes is one buyer with enough motivation.

It'll be interesting to see how this shakes out...

[EricK]

That extra 20k comes from that pretty Moog badge.

I thought attempted rape was a crime.

[LivePsy]

On the other hand, $35,000 now is more affordable to me than the brand new price was back in '74...

Here's a little perspective:
According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, $3495.00USD (list price for a Sys 15 in 1974) adjusted for inflation in today's dollars would sell for $15,842. So where does the other $20K come from? Does a Moog modular (even a later model in apparently decent shape) really command that kind of price? I guess all it takes is one buyer with enough motivation.

It'll be interesting to see how this shakes out...

Inflation is not even the half of it. Lower wages, no credit, very hard to get loans... How hard was it for you to get $3,500 together in 1974 compared to $35,000 now? Considering the wage you were earning then and now (and personal hardships aside) I would say that for most of us, that 1974 Moog was an unreachable dream and this $35,000 is by no means cheap but could be borrowed and paid off over years. Its easy to forget how little money people earned and how ridiculously expensive synths were.

Of course a systems 15 even if it hasn't deteriorated into an unstable mess, is very primitive. Not worth $1,000 in my opinion

[Sweep]

Prices for old analogue synths have now reached levels where even enthusiasts for specific intruments find the prices absurd.

There are many examples, but the EMS Synthi is probably the best one. From two or three thousand (pounds sterling) about four or five years ago they jumped to about six last year, and they're now exceeding that. On the Synthi forum I'm on there are many real enthusiasts for the instrument, and even they seem to regard the current prices as ridiculous. I certainly do, and the chances of me ever playing one again are very slim.

But the prices are set by what people want and are willing to pay for, not by what may be sensible. Still, the more people buy and sell Moog modulars, the more people will realise you don't just switch one of these on and instantly sound like Wendy Carlos.

[bunnyman]

You could buy a complete Döepfer basic modular AND a Moog MF-101 VCF for well under $3K and have a good deal more capability than a System 15. But then you couldn't say you spent $35,000 on a *real* Moog...

-andrew bunny

[dlmorley]

What people ask and what they get are pretty varied these days.
VCS3 are so iconic I can see people wanting them for a few reasons. They are small. They are early (69 or so I think they started), they are iconic (the list of users is pretty cool especially if you are into the German scene of the 70's or Eno etc). Glad I got mine when they were kind of affordable..
In my view, it's better to look at synths in 2 ways. As tools and as collectibles.
As tools, they are worth whatever they earn you in your music I guess! My ARP 2600 paid itself back many times over the years as it was the main synth on all my productions.
As collectibles, they are in the same category as Vintage cars and guitars.. The price is supply and demand based.
Of course there are no hard and fast rules, but this is how I see it. I had a Buchla 200 system that I sold last year. Wonderful synth but it's value exceeded what I consider it was worth as a tool. I miss it deeply. It was a beautiful synth and sounded amazing but when these things are worth a lot, you end up being a Curator and stop thinking of them just as musical instruments to a certain extent.

[this_poison]

I've totally lost all perspective in what constitutes a "true" selling price thanks to that rather well known auction site.

There are legitimate auctions for sure, but the constant relisting, "private feedback", "bidders identities protected" etc etc etc has left me even more confused than in those heady pre-bay days with just a trusty "Keyfax" or "A-Z...." (although at least we sometimes saw a second-hand synth actually in a shop with a price-ticket).

I really wish they would try and increase (rather than decrease) the transparency.

I'd love a bargain, but accept it's getting unlikely these days. Honesty and fair dealing should be possible though?

We can probably see through the "this is the third of my ARP 2600s I'm selling", or the guy who's first ever bids are for some vastly overpriced piece of gear, but are the JP8s really going for $6000, the 2600s for $10000, the System 15s for $35000 etc etc ?

It would certainly make 30yrs of synth buying the most impressive investment I've ever made (although I won't sell anything), but it limits sourcing those gems I've always wanted.

I just wish there was a way to confirm the cash actually changed hands!

[bunnyman]

Well, as far as ridiculous goes, how about a BROKEN Moog Satellite (a fairly unexciting preset beast) w/ a BIN of $999? http://cgi.ebay.com/1970s-Vintage-Moog- ... _509wt_936

[Sweep]

I just wish there was a way to confirm the cash actually changed hands!

I can confirm it in one or two cases, and there's also the independent testimony of people like Richard Lawson of RL Music in Britain, who until recently was selling lovingly reconditioned synths at very high prices and getting the money. He sold an MS20 of mine, giving me a realistic price for the instrument I sold to him (the price I asked him for, in fact) and then re-selling it for a very high price once he'd restored it. The price it sold for was absurd, but why not if that's what someone wanted to pay?

It's interesting, i think, that RL Music recently changed to a reconditioning service rather than a sales service. According to their website it seemed pointless selling carefully reconditioned synths when poor condition ones were selling for high prices anyway. Reading between the lines I take it that they could see instruments in need of work going for high prices and reckoned they may as well do the reconditioning when the new owners realised how much work needed doing.