Voyager keyboards

[Sweep]

Apologies if this question has already been answered somewhere.

I recall reading that some (later?) Voyagers have keyboards made in China.

Is that true, and if so is there any way of telling what keyboard a Voyager has - for example by serial number?

- thanks

[Prime NL]

Make a search on this part of the forum on the word "fatar".....guess you will find more then enough info...

[Sweep]

Done that, and it seems there's a vague time period (after but not including when the Anniversary Edition appeared?) when the Chinese keyboards were used, and there's a photo of a Fatar keyboard closed at the bottom but someone else says this isn't typical after all.

It does seem that some earlier Chinese keyboards were ok (at least up to Moog's own expectations) and the complaints are only about later ones.

I would have expected Moog themselves to know exactly when the Chinese keyboards were used and roughly (if not exactly) what serial numbers are involved. Maybe someone from Moog will chime in on this topic. If not I may email them directly.

I'm sure at some future date this is going to become a hot issue, as Voyagers begin to become collectable. And it would certainly be an issue for anyone buying second-hand now.

[EricK]

Perhaps. On a list of things that crop up, there will be information about the various OS editions, Voyagers with/without the memory upgrade, filter glide mod, quiet 2 technology, all that. There will be a bit about the Chinese keys, but the least of the worries for the future collectors are those types of keys, as of right now, keys can be purchased from fatar.

There will be OS with and without the New Mod they offer.


I think it would be nice to go ahead ang get an extra keybed and cabinet, extra pots and leave them in their boxes for 30 years from now to refurb our then aged voyagers with new cosmetics. Stock up on some new Fooger cheek pieces too.

Of all of the various collector issues, I think there won't be anything like different osc boards like there were for the model d (at least that any of us really know about as the schems are proprietry secrets). To me, thats the stuff that really seems to matter. I am going to just throw out there that they probably haven't chenged the design of the main analogue board much at all...and do they really need to?

Probably the weakest aspect of the Voyager are the push buttons for the menu screens and the oh so delicate touch surface. Other than that, everything else is secondary to the electronics on board. Unless you have the backlit versions and then one might want to consider getting an extra panel decal as you can probably stick your finger through it where the lamps are. Over time I imagine that the menu buttons won't be as responsive to changes in the software.

As far as the longest term durabillitym the Voyager OS is probably the most rock solid way to go as far as 35 years from now. These are of corse only my opinions.


Eric

[till]

...
I am going to just throw out there that they probably haven't chenged the design of the main analogue board much at all...and do they really need to?
...

There are at least three slightly (?) different analog boards in the normal Voyagers.
They differ for example on some OP-amps.
For the slewrate mod by Rudi Linhard, some earlier boards need a different set of these chips.
My Voyager got the version with the newer Op amps.
see here: http://www.till-kopper.de/voyager.html

[EricK]

Ahh,
Glad to know that, Till, Thanks.

Now Im asking myself, did Bob draw all of those traces too? (Im NOT an EE)

[Raglani]

I could be crazy but my first (stolen- #217) OS keyboard seemed much springier and solid than the wobbly somewhat flimsy feeling OS (#375) that I have now... any other similar experiences?

[ikazlar]

FWIW, my Select Series #224 already had a problem with the keyboard. I took it to be serviced and they said it'd be easy to fix (they said that some of them of the springs were loosened after too much transportation - which is definitely not the case). After 2 or 3 days they called back (after getting in contact with Moog) and they said that the whole keyboard needs to be replaced.

Great. We are talking something like 430 euros. I told them that I want the old keyboard - given the fact that I baby my synths, that my Voyager never went anywhere, that only a specific area of the keyboard had problems and I am not banging on the keys- it's quite possible that it's Chinese.

If it is, then shame on you Moog. Where's your quality control?

[EricK]

IK,
What problems was you keyboard exhibiting?
Ive noticed that the middle of my board seems "more broken in" than the rest fo the board, is louder and seems likt its a little more loose, but all of the keys are still perfectly aligned and respond well.

Eric

[ikazlar]

Eric,

my keyboard double triggered the sounds when I let go off the key very quickly. Try this on yours, press a key, glide your finger at the end of the key and let it slip downwards very quickly. Does it retrigger? is there some anomaly in the sound?

In mine all the black keys and the white keys of the right-most octave are ok (except one). I tried to transpose the keyboard and it doesn't make any difference. What was previously an anomalous sound is transposed one octave up and it played perfectly. I thought it must have been a keyboard problem and I was right.

As a matter of fact my Voyager is still there. The replacement keyboard took AGES to arrive here, despite the fact that Moog have said they are sending it express.

Another problem that I have noticed is that the leftmost G key was not properly aligned with the keybed. Everytime I pressed that key it made a weird sound, as if it was pressing on wood or something.

[Niko]

I've learned to distinguish between the chinese from the Fatar is simply to look on the base plate. If there are 8 screws it is the chinese one. If there are 10 screws the Fatar is implemented.
The following pictures shows the chinese version.

[ikazlar]

As a matter of fact Moog said to me that all keyboards, either chinese or otherwise, have this problem and they don't intend to change it.

I can paste the relevant email here, in case someone is interested.

[Niko]

Hi ikazlar,

and here is something completely different: Your user avatar seems to be not working. I just can see a box with a little red cross left top.
Sorry for this detour to the topic but it teases my esthetical senses this morning. Again sorry for this comment.

[ikazlar]

Fixed that... now I have an awesome Rodin sculpture.

anyway here's the email from Moog, just in case anyone is interested.

Hello Yannis-
I am not sure if you have spoke with Costas or not, but I think I may
have come across something with our keyboards that may explain this
situation.

I put some headphones on around here and went around to a number of
Voyager to test the keyboards. I tested a brand new one off the line, a
service unit we have had for 2-3 years, a unit that we have had in the
sound room for 5-6 years and on this repair I am doing for a Voyager
that is easily 8-10 years old. Unfortunately, I was able to acheive this
double-trigger on all of the keyboards, and on all of the notes on each
keyboard. The springs/foam involved in making the keyboards as
expressive as they are (with velocity and after pressure) this amount of
play has to be there for these effects to function. I found that I had
to bare down fairly hard on the keys to achieve the double-trigger, and
that in a normal playing scenario it would not come up too often.

I am terribly sorry for the troubles that you have gone through, and
that it seems to come to a conclusion such as this but it was an issue
that even Amos (our guru service veteran of ten years) was unaware of
and therefore we had no ability to know that it was a byproduct of all
the keyboards we manufacture. If you have any questions regarding this
than please feel free to contact me. Again, I am sincerely sorry for
your troubles.
All the Best,
Rosser
Moog Tech Support

AND

Yannis-
Yes, we will continue to build Voyagers with the same keyboard that we
have been putting into them for years and years. You are the first
person to have brought this issue up believe it or not, and we feel that
we are still very confident in the quality of our synthesizers regardless.

It is also okay that they replace the key on your keyboard with another
key, as they are the same part. It is safe and easy to do and I am sure
they will do this with ease and care.
All the Best,
Rosser

[psicolor]

my keyboard double triggered the sounds when I let go off the key very quickly. Try this on yours, press a key, glide your finger at the end of the key and let it slip downwards very quickly. Does it retrigger? is there some anomaly in the sound?

I play my voyager for 1,5 years but i never ever noticed the double triggering in the real live!
But I now tried it this way, pressed a key very deep (until aftertouch starts to take effect) and then let it flick upwards: The key does retrigger! It works with ALL WHITE KEYS (except the upper c) but with NO BLACK KEY! And, btw, I have the fatar keyboard

As my playing style never provoked the double triggering, i personally consider this effect as a feature that i can use with a special playing technique (which i would call the flick-technique)

Nice!