hi, I was part of this forum but not in an active way and this is my first post alair, so hello everybody!
as the thread´s title say I wonder if oscillator 2 is indeed removed from modulation sources in the sub p
I hope not because it´s the key for lot of worderful sounds in the slim phatty…I got one (and a minitaur) and was thinking about sell it to get the sub p but the lack of this feature really killed the deal…
Amos: is such a feature planned to be implemented in a OS/firmware upgrade? maybe using shift + one of the LFO´s waveforms position…
I love the new 3-bus modulation routing with attenuators on them and this would be even greater to use with oscillator 2 as the modulator
this are some of the sounds I got and love using this feature…and I know the new LFO is fast, but is not the same since it doesn´t track the keyboard
the other new features are a really good (and expected) upgrade from the existant ones, like the individual wave modulation and the expanded envelope set
I just saw the LFO tracking option so it could be a partial solution if the LFO goes very high in rate
the declared max frequency is 1KHz, hat is nice for an LFO but not even close to a full-range oscillator and it will be a limitation to get some lovely FM sounds that are easy to achieve in the other phattys using oscillator 2 as the modulator
also I like the kind sounds that you got by feedbacking modulations with oscillator 2 as source of wave modulation that target itself
I think the LFO can go fast AND track the keyboard as Marty’s just said. You should definitely see the manual, especially the hidden features as this may be one.
P.29 indeed states: LFO KEYBOARD TRACKING AMOUNT
To specify how much the LFO rate tracks the keyboard
pitch, enter Shift mode and press the BANK 2 and
PATCH 4 buttons. Pressing the low C key sets keyboard
tracking to zero, meaning key pitch will have no effect
on LFO rate. Pressing higher keys sets a proportionally
greater amount of keyboard tracking; the middle C on
the keyboard sets 1:1 LFO pitch tracking, meaning the
LFO rate will double when the key pitch doubles. The
high C key sets 2:1 LFO pitch tracking, meaning that the
LFO rate will change by four times for every octave of
pitch change
I’m afraid I wasn’t clear. At a certain point the LFO’s rate (via keyboard tracking) seems to max out and stop. This seems to be about middle-C (+1 octave) when keyboard-tracking is set to max (high-C). I don’t think this is what people are looking for.
bad news then…now I just have to hope moog decide to include oscillator 2 as a modulation source in a future upgrade…anyway I don´t know if it´s possible or you need a hardware mod to make it happens
I’m going to go ahead and put in my vote for osc2 as modulation source, as well. I’ve been trying to achieve some FM effects by using the LFO at high rate, but it’s just not the same as the osc2 modulation on the LP.
A little off topic, but somewhat related (might put this in a separate thread), I have been attempting to use my Dark Energy’s LFO to impart FM on the pitch CV input on the Sub and it’s acting really strange. The modulation is normal until you get into higher modulation rates, and then really bizarre (not FM) things start to happen. The pitch goes totally wacky and seems to be all over the place. Each new key press seems to start from a different pitch. No idea what this could be, but it did weigh on my decision to drop my vote for Osc2 modulation on this thread.
all bad news…I love the FM in the slim phatty and will miss it a lot if I finally move to the sub-p
I think I better wait to se what happens with the next upgrade…the lack of oscillator 2 as modulation source and arpeggiator would be 2 things that together are deal breaker for me…
Being it’s analogue you just can’t make this modification without changing the hardware. Unless the routing is done through software anyway. Only someone like Amos can tell us for sure. Still even then, it would become one of the “under the hood” features. There are a lot of things you gain with the Sub over the Little. Just an example on the Sub you can now just target one oscillator or the other, and don’t have to have it set to both like on the Little. So now you can have PWM on one, and not on the other. So you win some and you gain some. I personally find the limits of the Little more of a limit than those of the Sub. Not to mention you actually have noise on the Sub, which the Little is lacking terribly. Give it a few months and you can pick up a used Sub and Slim for the price of a new Little, and you can have it all.
Totally agree with Box. If you like the Sub, don’t let that be the one thing that turns you off from it. The limitations are certainly there, but they’re just part of it’s personality like any other synth. You can still do cool FM with the LFO. For me, the knob per function interface was no brainer. The Sub is hands down a more enjoyable synth experience all around compared to the Little. New features are being added almost weekly by Amos, so I’m still hopeful that an arpeggiator will be added in a future firmware upgrade.
I understand what you say and partially agree, but for me an “enjoyable synth experience” is a balance between operation and sound, and I know I´ll miss this FM sounds from the slim phatty…I know it because I played with them today and it´s one of the things that puts the synth a step beyond the classic Moog sound from the past…a step in the right direction if you ask me
I´m not asking for something hard to achieve like sample playback oscillators, a FX unit or multimode filtering, just a nice feature that already is in a previous product with almost the same name…so I think it´s not so out of the reality to expect the sub-p got something that already is in all the voyagers and phattys
