You can’t completely erase the market for the slim-phatty by making the sub-phatty do EVERYTHING that the more expensive synth does.
I´m not looking for everything…the slim phatty still got a different sound, warmer overdrive, and a much bigger bank of memories
also, it´s a module, that lot of people preffer/need
Hi KingFriday, (from the “Neighborhood of Make-Believe”?),
This suggestion is obviously not a replacement for OSC2 modulation but…
You can get fantastic hi-speed modulation effects by setting your Filter to Repeat. Then make the Attack, Decay, and Release short enough that the Envelope becomes a very fast LFO. Experiment with different settings of the Filter Env’s Sustain Level and EG Amount. You’ll find that you can “tune” the repeating envelope to create drone modulation at desired pitches.
The Repeat feature on the Amp Envelope has a different flavor and the two can be combined to make some seriously complex modulations that are completely separate from the LFO. The Amp Env’s Sustain Level can be used to set modulation depth and the A,D,R sets the shape and speed of the modulation.
Great suggestions, DemonDan. I completely forgot about the looping envelopes! You can definitely get some crazy awesome high speed modulation effects that way, and still have your LFO free for other modulation.
I think the biggest thing missing by not having Osc2 as a mod source is the fact that you can easily do pitch FM in precise octave/interval relationships. As cool as all these other FM techniques are, theres nothing like the fuzzy metallic grind of that kind of FM. But that’s just one flavor of sound you can’t do on the Sub where you get 5 or more new flavors in it’s place!
Think of it as a trade off. Yes you lose OSC 2 as a mod source, but you get noise! I’m not sure about you, but noise is generally much more useful when we’re talking in a musical sense. That and you can assign waveform modulation independently of each other, which is so very useful in making solid PWM bass sounds. You get some FM type sounds on the Sub with the LFO, not to the same extent as the Little/Slim, but still.
Do I want the Sub to have OSC 2 as a mod source? Hell yes, but I’m not going to let that deter from all of the new things you get over the Little/Slim.
Anselmi, you have an Analog Four…you could use the A4 LFOs to modulate the Sub P Filter or Pitch via CV…not the same, i know, but you still have the LFO free on the Sub P than.
I got plenty of gear, including a little 6U euro (and another one comming) so I´m not short of modulation sources at all! 
but I want audio rate modulation of the filter with transposition to get FM timbres consistent at different notes…so, I can use any other oscillator to do this if I control its pitch with the same note I input into the sub-p (via its own keyboard or MIDI)…but this is a lot of patching vs jut grabb a knob and rise oscillator 2´s modulation output
of course I can do oscillator and/or filter FM with a zillion other stuff but the one on the slim phatty sounds really special and I got lovely tones with no effort using it, like the ones on this demo
I’ve been experimenting with FM on the Subby using both LFO keyboard tracking and the EG repeat function (thanks DemonDan!), the range of the modulating frequency doesn’t extend to 20kHz of course but there’s an awful lot of FM craziness to be enjoyed.
However I noticed that if I set LFO keyboard tracking to 200% and play too high up the keyboard the LFO modulation just disappears. It’s as though driving the LFO rate beyond its 1kHz limit temporarily disables its mod setting.
Anybody else experienced this?
marty
Yes. I’ve found that the LFO at the tip-top of it’s range (with LFO key-tracking at max) goes to zero.
T
Indeed, this is a “feature” (limitation) of the Sub Phatty. I’m exploring this it right now, as it seems to apply to the external CV modulation bus as well, or at least affect it in a strange way.(LFO range must be set high to accept audio rate modulation) This is making me think that Osc2 as a mod source might not possible at all, as using it would exceed the “resolution” offered by the LFO modulation bus itself. I hope I’m wrong.
Amos, can you speak to exactly how the LFO modulation is set up on the Sub and how that relates to the external CV modulation bus? What exactly is causing the LFO resolution to be “cut off”?
+1 on this request
I´d like to know if Osc 2 as modulation source is possible from the hardware point of view…if not it will be better to know in order to take the right decision
This times of mod-able and upgreadable synths, even analog ones, feels like a double edged knife since you´re always expected a certain synth to do more, extending the period of knowing the instrument and accept its limitations…
Of course I´m not complaining since there is lot of examples of incredible good upgrades like the arpeggiator in the phatty or midi/cv in the monotribe
I remember the first time I see this kind of extra features added way later of the product release, it was about 1997 with an ensoniq asr-x´s OS upgrade that added pattern change on the fly and then in 1999 access added a vocoder to their virus A synth…this was like “WOW” is this possible???..a vocoder???" at the time it was like sorcery for us
Hey, just got a subphatty, and I’m also very annoyed at the lack of oscillator mod source. Seems so basic I overlooked it when ordering. Why would a Moog leave that out?!?! Seems like something Korg would do, not Moog.
Anyway I’d love to hear if there were plans for an under the hood feature to make this work.
I also was disappointed with the fact that you can’t use OSC 2 as mod. source, but that same fact makes me try harder to find workarounds - using fast LFO with tracking, and fast looping envelope. And figuring out workarounds is quite rewarding. Also, SubPhatty’s raw sound without any modulation is already giving me goosebumps. Unbelievable bass is coming out this thing, it hits me right in the guts. I’ve never heard anything remotely similar coming out of my other gear, analog or digital.
All that being said, I wouldn’t mind having OSC 2 as mod source, just so i could free up LFO for other stuff.
Would is be possible that the Sub Phatty LFO is not analog (ie digital, and hence a nyquist frequency / bandwidth), since it seems to have a ‘resolution’ at people are saying here?
To my knowledge, sync’able LFOs are always digital.
I have noticed on some of my patches if i have the mod up and the octave selected as high as it goes, the last (highest) octave will not have any mod on them but if you hit the B…Kaboom. I love this quirk! I don’t know if i have a bunch of hidden features on or off, but the patches that do it are some of my favorite. For sure however the keyboard tracking appears to be off. I fear this “feature” may get “corrected” in an update 
How about adding the MF-107 FreqBox to your setup?
I’m considering this to expand on the FM sounds on my Slim Phatty, but together with a Sub P it should also be capable of adding some nice FM to that synth.
Do you know at what frequency they are produced?
What do you mean by “produced”?
If the LFO is digital there is a clock, at which the LFO signal is produced, for example at 44.1kHz for audio rates. The frequency of this clock is responsible for the bandwidth limit in digital systems. A clock of 44.1kHz (Let’s call this F) can only create waves of 22.05kHz (F/2) or less. This is the Nyquist Theorem. And wave shapes produced these high frequency are very crude, because the system is runs out of resolution at this rate. One can think of this as being able to see the pixels in a visual metaphor, or seeing the jagged edges of a wave form in a audio signal. The production (misrepresentation) of artifacts/jaggies is called aliasing.
Anyway my point is that if the if the clock producing the 1000Hz LFO is only 2KHz the LFO shape will break down and it will sound noisy, and the selected wave shape will not really matter. This would explain what people are hearing on this thread.
Just thought you (or anyone else?! Please!) might know what rate/bandwidth the Digital LFO is running at/being produced at.
If their is no special digital oscillator, this would be the frequency of the microcrontroller that runs in the Sub Phatty divided by the number of clock steps it needs to take to do all it’s work. I thought a Moog would at least us Digitally Controlled Oscillator (DCO) for this, which produces a precisely controlled but still analog wave.
So which is it? Is the LFO a VCO, DCO, to Digital-to-Analog Converted Signal?