I’ve noticed an odd behavior when playing very short notes on the keyboard.
In unison mode, or in paraphonic when I only play one note at a time, if I play very staccato notes they come out sounding very short, as expected.
But in paraphonic mode, if I’m holding down one note and play a second note very short, it comes out sounding longer than what I play.
Has anyone else seen this? It must have to do with how the oscillators are muted when one note vs. multiple notes are being played, but I wonder whether that’s something that could be fixed in firmware, or whether it’s expected behavior for some reason. I’ve tried experimenting with all the paraphony-related global settings, multi-trig, etc., and nothing seems to make a difference.
Just some clarification on how this behavior works:
For the amp envelope, I’m setting A,D,R to 0, and S to maximum.
I just discovered that when Unison mode is turned on, the second voice can be played staccato and it stays nice and short; it’s only in non-Unison when the second voice lingers for about a quarter of a second after I let go of the key.
I understand that this is because the real envelope only goes into Release once you let go of all the notes that were being held, so the internal gate must just not be getting shut off until that fraction of a second after the note-off; so in Unison mode the second oscillator doesn’t have to get gated off, it just goes back to playing the first voice. But it still seems odd that there would be an easily noticeable delay between the note-off and when the oscillator gets muted.
I’m a bit late in my reply, but just to confirm this delay in note off timing in paraphonic mode was created with the 1.2 firmware updates. The older version, and 1.1 is still on the Moog website, does not do this and extra notes in paraphonic mode are heard as they are played and don’t linger on.
I’ve raised the issue with support but I’ve not heard back yet. But this is clearly an issue that can be fixed in firmware.
Thanks for the reply. Looking at the release notes, it seems like this is probably a side effect of this change in v1.2.0:
Fix for stuck envelopes (was due to retriggering faster than a certain minimum, easy to do in multi-trig mode).
Unfortunately v1.2.0 also added the global settings over SysEx feature, which is ridiculously useful, so I’d be reluctant to go back to v1.1.0. Hopefully they can manage to fix this bug in a future update without causing the “stuck envelopes” problem to come back.
Funny before seeing this thread I noticed this issue for the first time yesterday after loading 1.23. Thanks for pointing out that it was also present in 1.21 as it saves me having to revert back.
The one thing that helps is turning on Paraphonic Unison mode, though that sounds a little weird if you’re going between single-note and multi-note playing.
You can also try sending email to Moog support. I did that back in November (and haven’t heard back ) but I would think that they’ll be more likely to fix the issue if they hear from multiple people.
I did contact the support a few days ago.
However, anytime I send them a mail, I have two delivery failure mails, then a third one saying that they received my request.
I truly hope they track support requests.
The bugs on this synth are so frustrating.
If it was working properly, it would definitely be one of my favorite synth ever. But for now, I keep regretting buying it. Then improvise a 2 hour session and decide to keep it anyway, crossing my fingers for a software fix.
Just wondering the same thing…did this issue ever get addressed by Moog? I’m about to buy a Matriarch and then saw a video on youtube this morning where you can hear the filter randomly opening as he plays chords. The video is at least a year old…
Hello, just chiming in here to talk about this issue that I also encounter, And it’s quite irritating.
I’m going to try tommorow playing with all the paraphonic global setting to see if this change anything, but some help from moog would be welcome !
Alright, I managed to get the support on the phone.
It’s been quite interesting.
At first, I want to correct a wrong info that can be found in this topic : this behaviour was not introduced with 1.1.0. It tested it, so did the techs at Moog. I assume it’s always been so. (Or was there a prior firmware ?).
Also I wanted to share some interesting tests that I made with my paraphonic synths. They all appear to have their own “philosophy”. Here are my conclusions :
Arturia microfreak :
it’s actually just one filter, BUT 4 amplitude envelopes. It does allow staccato mode (if the envelope is set up properly, with no attack and no release).
Korg Mono/Poly :
it’s got 2 “trigger” modes :
“Single” would trigger the envelope once end stays at the sustain level
“multiple” would retrigger the envelope for each note.
But in any case, any subsequent note will remain held as long as the first one is held. It doesn’t allow staccato notes.
Korg Delta :
A “gate” is applied to each new note. It seems to have some ramp time before the rise and after the fall. so it’s more like a very short ASR applied to each note. It allows more or less staccato notes.
Matriarch :
A “gate” is applied to each note. There is some sort of ASR applied to the gate, but there is a delay after the sustain. So it’s more like a “ASDelR” enveloppe. It doesn’t allow staccato notes.
So, all in all,
I don’t know if this “delay” applied to the gate has a digital/software origin, but I’d love to be able to avoid it, or at least reduce it to the maximum (I’m aware that a short envelope must be applied to avoid clicks). Maybe it could be a “globals” setting, so we could choose “nervous” or “smooth” staccato ?
We may be discussing different things but the time lag on note release in paraphonic mode was not present in firmware 1.1.0. Notes are heard as they are played in 1.1.0. It was only in 1.2.x that the problem is present.
Each of the four Matriarch VCOs have their own VCA. This is controlled with a gate like control signal that simply turns each VCO on and off. The main envelopes are not affected by this problem. What seems to be happening is that the individual control signals to the oscillator VCAs stay high for a little too long after the note is no longer being played.
Damn, I don’t know what happened last time when I tried 1.1.0 for comparison… but yeah, Paraphonic mode IS working properly in 1.1.0 !!!
It’s definitely a firmware issue that NEEDS to be fixed !
) but I would think that they’ll be more likely to fix the issue if they hear from multiple people.