Idea for a new Moog

Henfield · Post by **Henfield** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 5:52 am

I think that it would be great if Moog could come up with a new Bass Pedal synth, kind of like the Taurus I or II. It would probably be a little better if it were like the Taurus II, that way you could sell the synth module as a stand alone table top or rackmount synth. I am not looking for anything fancy, maybe a recreation of the Rogue (which shared its synth portion with the Taurus II). Something that has discreet circuits and is analog, with a minnimum of bells and whistles, which would help to keep the cost down. Footswitches to activate four or five presets on the bass pedals would be on my wish list (for guitarists and bassists!), but I am willing to negotiate on that area.

To sum it up, I would like a set of bass pedals that would connect to an analog synth box, either through MIDI or a proprietary format. This synth box should be able to mount on a standard microphone stand or sit on a tabletop to be used as a sound module. And, the whole package should retail for less than the current retail price of the LP?

Can they do it? Is there enough interest?

dr_floyd · Post by **dr_floyd** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:10 am

Have you investigated the Roland PK-5 pedal controller? The PK-5 connected to a Voyager rackmount sort of fits your description.

I agree about a new Taurus, but I would definitely prefer an all-in-one package. Then it's a single instrument that could be fine tuned, not just modular components. I would love a Phatty put with a one or one and half octave velocity, after-pressure and side-to-side (+x to -x) controller foot pedal.

I used to have the Taurus II and currently use the Roland PK-5 connected to an Evolver, Microkorg, or Voyager, and it's perfect as a flexible component system. But I still would love an all-in-one fine tuned system based on the Phatty with additional control sources from the foot pedals!

Henfield · Post by **Henfield** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:05 pm

dr_floyd wrote:Have you investigated the Roland PK-5 pedal controller? The PK-5 connected to a Voyager rackmount sort of fits your description.

The only problem is the cost, you are talking about $2,700 worth of equipment. I can buy vintage for those kind of prices! I could use the PK-5, but I would still want a rackmount or tabletop module version of the LP, to keep the total under $1,200.

jamirokid · Post by **jamirokid** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:43 pm

A guy on ebays makes bass pedals...username racktopiaracks
He said he'd make me a just midi foot controller for under 400 bucks! That and a little phatty sounds like a good combo. the lp is similar to a rogue in a lot of ways and I think the rogue was basically the same as the taurus. thats a lot cheaper that 2700!
Josh

dr_floyd · Post by **dr_floyd** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:36 pm

Henfield - yeah, I know what you're saying. It just seems that a small company like Moog wouldn't be able to keep the cost down for something so esoteric.

I bet they'd probably source the foot pedals from the same place Roland does, probably Fatar, and if you added in the kind of controllers I want the price goes up more.

Roland PK-5 - $500 new (and it runs on batteries too if you want!)
Evolver (monophonic analog) - $550 new, or Microkorg (polyphonic modeled) - $400 new (and it runs on batteries too!)

So for $900 to $1000 you can get a pretty powerful new bass pedal rig without any vintage worries. I would think a tabletop LP would still cost around $900 if they ever decided to go that route.

Anyway, thanks for bringing up the topic. I would love for there to be more interest in what you're proposing.

Kevin Lightner · Post by **Kevin Lightner** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:18 pm

I bet they'd probably source the foot pedals from the same place Roland does, probably Fatar

Fwiw, Roland usually manufacturers such items themselves.
It would be rare for them to buy them, especially from an Italian company.

I don't see a huge problem with Moog manufacturing a pedal board, but I think the market is much smaller than it would be for a keyboard oriented instrument.
Please understand that when you're a company like Moog, shelf space alone is a huge concern.
Filling up shelves and bins with yet another product means that product better turn some profits.

dr_floyd · Post by **dr_floyd** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:30 pm

Good point Kevin.
Now that you mention it, Yamaha and Roland would never need to source in Europe, or even outside their own companies.

Maybe there could be a collaboration - a Moogeroland Taurus-san. Let Roland deal with the shelf space issues and help with some of the mechanical engineering developments. Roland is collaborating with Fender, why not Moog too?

Quicker to market, bigger support community, international goodwill... What is the corporate-speak for that? A "win, win situation". Fun products always lessen the bad taste of huge corporate involvement, don't they?

Kevin Lightner · Post by **Kevin Lightner** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:18 pm

I don't think that's such a bad idea (cooperation between manufacturers.)
However, Roland did this with Rhodes when Rhodes themselves really had no products.
Roland (afaik) licensed their name, then provided the manufacturing and distribution.
With Moog, things could sticky. They have product lines that compete with Roland in some markets and each has their own manufacturing and distribution.

The idea of a Midi pedal board interfaced with a Lil Phatty is good though.
Stores that carry both lines could offer a package deal and both manufacturers could profit through greater volume sales and shared advertising costs.

Henfield · Post by **Henfield** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:46 am

Kevin Lightner wrote: I don't see a huge problem with Moog manufacturing a pedal board, but I think the market is much smaller than it would be for a keyboard oriented instument.

I think that Moog would have a much bigger market for a $1,200 dollar (or less) contained bass pedal synth than they do for a $3,000 + monophonic synthesizer.

I have been thinking about this more, and I think that the Taurus I idea is the best way to go. Have some presets and a user preset, maybe even with a computer librarian that allows you to upload new presets to the preset switches (I am willing to live without the computer librarian idea). Outfit it with some CV and MIDI outs would be great for allowing it to interface with the Voyager, LP, and the Moogerfoogers. Putting in an external input to the filters and EG would make it more of a "must - have" effect for guitar and bass players, and would allow it to use the Freq Box as another oscillator in the mix. You would not need to add the large foot sliders of old, just have jacks for EP-2 control of volume, filter cutoff frequency, etc., just like the MF line. To keep costs down, you could use minimal synth controls, just like the original Taurus. They would outsource the production of the actual pedals, just like the they do with the keys for their keyboards. They could use sliders for programming the user preset, like the original taurus, and they could use the same sliders used in the Murf to keep inventories down.

Just an idea. Is it feasible? I don't know, that is something that Moog can decide. They made the original, which is still in use today (Rush just pulled out their original Taurus pedals for the making of "Snakes and Arrows"). There would be some market for it, all depending on price, sound, and flexibility.

dr_floyd · Post by **dr_floyd** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:36 am

Yeah! CV in/out for the Moogers - great idea! And effects loop is good too.

I seem to remember in interviews before he died, Bob Moog said they were thinking about the Taurus concept because of the continuing interest.

Another good thing is that Moog always finds some extra unexpected twist to make a product truly unique. I hope they've been pondering bass pedals, because even though I'm happy with my current solution, Moog would come up with something that combines tradition to cutting edge.

Kevin Lightner · Post by **Kevin Lightner** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:27 pm

I can think of a few flies in the ointment, but they're minor issues at this stage.
The larger question is whether a floor oriented pedal would sell, make Moog a profit and be durable enough.
These are units meant to be stepped on and they receive a great deal of dust, shock and other abuse.
Moog could conceivably make a unit that fills everyone's desire for features, then find it doesn't stand up to the rigors of the road.
It could backfire on them unless made to very durable standards.
Things add up as you move to heavy duty, hand-assembled items.
For example, if you're a manufacturer and are dealing with a heavy duty enclosure, tooling costs and shipping can be higher, paint might be applied thicker and so on.
You'd be surprised how costs can add up.
A recent thread on another forum had a user commenting that a Moog 921A could be built for $5.
When I added it up, the lowest figure I could arrive at was $56 for parts alone.
Labor brought it to about $100 and this is a module with three cheap ICs in it.
It seems like hardly anything, but it's all the details that cost.

$1200 *is* a lot to ask for a foot oriented synth.
Consider that many of the Moogerfoogers are not being used on the floor at all.

hieronymous · Post by **hieronymous** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 1:30 am

I've been watching this thread with a lot of interest. I'm one of those that went the Roland PK-5/Little Phatty route, and I'm pretty happy. The best part for me is that I can use the LP either with my hands or foot, instead of being stuck with "just" footpedals (though there's a vintage Rainbow concert where Ritchie Blackmore plays his Taurus I pedals with his hands in between throwing his guitar around...)