Multi and Minimoog side by side

[eric coleridge]

Has anyone owned or played both a Multimoog and a Minimoog?

I have read variously that the Multi can and can't make a good Mini impression.

I have owned a Micro myself, and can absolutely attest to the difference in tone between a Micro and Mini. it didn't have the roundness and richness of tone that is the Minimoog sound (although it does have it's own charm and excells in some areas). I don't know what the technical reason for this is. It seemed to be more that just a missing oscillator, but then, who knows. I've read that the Mini and Micro are completely different and don't share the same ocs, filter, etc. architecture...

But then, I've read some descriptions from Multi owners who say the Multi (with 2 osc + sub osc.) has a much fuller tone than the Micro, and one that approaches a Minimoog's. Is this close to the truth?

I'm hoping that someone who owns, or has owned, both can give some testimony here.

Obviously, the Multi has many worthwhile attributes, many of which are lacking on a Minimoog, but I'd really like to know about it's sound from someone who knows Moogs and has firsthand experience with these synths.

I think alot of people who have used the much more common Micro(and know it's shortcomings in respect to the "Moog" sound) write off the much rarer Multi without actually having played one maybe. Meaning that many descriptions despairage Multi along with the Micro as inferior Moogs.

But it's hard to get the authentic scoop short of actaully buying one of these expensive and hard to find synths and trying it. So...

Anyone?

[EricK]

hehe You know, as one Eric to another, I gotta say that I love the Micro. Sure it has limited functions because its just a cornerstones worth of tools. But its a fabulous board.
I think one would make almost any board look bad when compared to another especitlaly the Mini.

Id love to have a multi to go along side my Micro because of the open system capabillities.

Even though i might have shown some initial skepticism about the Phatty, I don't think Moog has ever made a crappy board.

I know this doesn't answer your question but I had to defend the Micro here hahaa.
EricK

[eric coleridge]

I know this doesn't answer your question but I had to defend the Micro here hahaa.
EricK

I didn't mean to suggest that I agree with the bad press on the Micro. I really loved mine, and it was the first synth I ever owned; I bought it in '93 for spare change practically.

But I think when many people buy Moogs they're expecting the sound of a Mini and the Micro is just a different tone. It's kind of a flatter, buzzier, plastic kind of sound. It's strange though because IMO it's not a lack of bass frequency, the Micro is capable of crazy sub bass tone, it just doesn't have the roundness of a Mini. Maybe it's a mid-range thing...

I was wondering how much of that is attributed to the Micro's single ocsillator. If that's all it was, the Multi should be capable of a lot of Mini type sound. But I suspect it's more than just the lack of ocsillator.

I posted a similar topic several weeks ago and some one mentioned that the internal arcitecture of the Micro/Multi's was entirely different that the Mini.


I wonder if this is true of all the other Moogs. Can someone comment? Are the Prodigy or Source closer in arcitecture to a Mini? Do any other Moogs use the same oscillator or filter circuits as the Mini?

[mee3d]

Hi Eric

I sold my multimoog a few years back and I wish that I hadn't . . but at the time prices were rising and I got twice as much as I originally paid for it . . ho-hum.

From what I remember, the multimoog sounded very different to my model D mini . . . on the face of it the multi has a load more features then the mini . . I remember enjoying the inverse envelopes for great squigy "plop" sounds and the second oscillator being able to be divided by 2 octaves did add some great bass . . prog band SAGA used the multi for all their bass work. The aftertouch worked well, allowing you to open the filter, bring on modulation or pitchbend by pressing hard on the keys, which helped a lot if you couldn't get on with the ribbon pitchbend! And it had variable waveforms which sounded great as you tweaked the waveform knob while playing.

But side by side with a model D it sounds thin, I think it was a little more reserved, more of an educational synth possibly derived from the musonics sonic five/six stable. . and as the envelopes where crippled it had a tendency to sound a little organ like . . either full sustain or none etc. The lack of a real oscillator mixer also tamed the instrument as it sounded like it was impossible to overdrive either oscillators (and no external feed in like the mini).

Having said that, there are a whole range of tones the multi can do over the model D and I was able to get some great basses and soft, flute like leads out of it . . in the future, when moneys available I'll probably try and find another one . . . If I can that is!

Mal

[EricK]

Boy that thing looks clean! I have seen a few on the great demon spawn that is ebay every few years. Id love to own one to go right by my Micro. However i don't think i have room in my heart for another monosynth. Im goign to expand the voyager with the Modular unitrs over time and then invest in a grande 88 key unit like the Fantom x-8 or something.

But thinking about it, the minimoog was their flagship synth just as the voyager is now. I do'nt see any reason why they woudl want to out-do their flagship with the multi or anything else until several years later when they did the memory and the poly. If they sounded the same there woudl be no reason to get one.

I really think that my counterpart (eric coleridge) should just get one because they are so rare and just because its still an awesome synth.

I love my MicroMoog alot and im still suprised with what it can do when its tweaked right. Its a great unit and the Multi is an expansion of that.


But the real question for you Eric is that if you want it to sound like a Model D then why not just get a model D? THose synths can equal in price to a minimoog on ebay. Unless you already have one of corse.
EricK

[electricmoog]

Minimoog = Star Wars (1977)
Multimoog = The Empire Strikes Back

[eric coleridge]

But thinking about it, the minimoog was their flagship synth just as the voyager is now. I do'nt see any reason why they woudl want to out-do their flagship with the multi or anything else until several years later when they did the memory and the poly. If they sounded the same there woudl be no reason to get one.

I don't think this is entirely true actually because I've read that the Multi was intended as a replacement for the Mini, and in '78 when the Multi was released, the Mini stopped production (and didn't start again for a year or two). This could be incorrect info, but I done red it on the intranet.

Also, I've read a couple articles about the Micro circa when it was released (when alot more people had the opportunity to actually play them side by side--in a store for instance), and it seems like it was very popular and considered nothing less than a one oscillator Mini (granted, there were very few synths at the time).

But the real question for you Eric is that if you want it to sound like a Model D then why not just get a model D? THose synths can equal in price to a minimoog on ebay. Unless you already have one of corse.
EricK

I just don't have the resources for a Mini, I'd have to sell my MonoPoly and Avatar (thereby losing CV outs, Osc. sync, and ring mod) plus kick in another $1000. That's a high price to pay. I would almost do it, because I (like everyone else) freakin love the Minimoog. The Mini is just otherworldly, and I've never heard another come close to it's sound (including Source and Prodigy) except of course the Voyager.

But, I could afford a Multi, and I'd love to buy one, they're just so few and far between. So, I'm waiting for the right one. There was one last week for $1000, but I'd rather wait for one in better condition if I'm going to shell out $1000.

From what I've seen on E-bay (I've been watching for awhile), the Multi (in mint cond.) usually stays at $1000, and the Mini (in poor cond.) rarely goes below $2000. For me, that's a pretty big jump.

I'd like to have both. I like the Micro alot too, but for a chunk more, if you can find one, you can buy a Multi and you get alot of useful extras. I've never played one, but that aftertouch keyboard seems like it'd pretty cool. I really like controllers; anything that will effect the parameters while your playing... like using pedals to contol cutoff. or LFO rate, so you still have a hand to do something else (sorry, not what you're thinking).

anymore Multi testimonials?

[eric coleridge]

The more I think about, the more I'm warming up to the Little Fatty. Not that anyone cares what this MultiMoog obsesive thinks, but when they first unveiled LP, I was a little disappointed. I didn't really like the way it looked (I'm more into vintage gear), and it seemed kind of high priced. But if the street price is near $1000 for the performance edition, and if it sounds like a Voyager (or Mini more/less), this weird looking little synth is gonna be pretty awesome.

It will sure beat a Source: it will sound better, it'll be more functional with 4 knobs versus 1, it'll have filter inputs, and ext. audio inputs (why I wouldn't buy a Source- no ext. input-- c'mon this reduces it's functioning in half).

It probably does alot of stuff I don't know about (vel. sensitivity?, MIDI CC?) also.

It's probably gonna be a great deal. Maybe better than a Multi...

[Nick Montoya]

Sound wise I think they are much different. I don't own a Multimoog, but have played one. Sounded great, but the contsruction is less desirable than a Mini. The multi does have aftertouch which is a cool feature most Moogs don't have. A much tinnier sound, but great for what it is. My favorite use of the Multimoog is in Ima Robot's first album. Ollie G knew how to tear that thing up, but then they kicked him out of the band.

IMO, nothing beats a Model D !

- Nick

[Dr.T]

Hi there & happy Easter, everybody (well, those of you who celebrate Easter) - hope you all had a successful Easter egg hunt/search and that the Easter Bunny proved to be generous!

This is my first post on the forum. I am very happy to join the community - I have been interested in Moog gear for more than 30 years and have played a Prodigy and a Rogue years ago. Last week I took delivery to a Voyager AE, and this led to a "shootout" involving the Voyager, and a friend's Multimoog, Prophet 600 and Oberheim OB-12.

We hope to find time to report about the shootout soon, but I wanted to comment right away on Eric's questions since we compared the Voyager and the Multimoog side by side. I am aware that Eric is looking for an opinion on how the original Minimoog and the Multimoog compare, but maybe this helps a bit:

One surprising (almost scary!) result of the shootout was how much the Multimoog and the Voyager can be made to sound alike - and sound GOOD! We did some blindfold comparison tests for typical lead sounds and couldn't tell the difference! It needs to be said though that we did take a lot of care to make them sound the same. The major difference in many realistic patch situations appeared to be that the filters tracked the keyboard somewhat differently, no matter how we set the keyboard follow functions. The restricted envelope generators in the Multimoog were almost never any problem but generally gave us all we needed. In terms of the raw oscillator sound, the Multimoog seemed to have more sizzle and the Voyager more lower midrange (i.e. more warmth).

Also, we found that the lack of individual level controls for the oscillators was no big deal for most situations - it appears the Multimoog drives its filter pretty hard anyway.

Of course, due to the different technical features and signal routing issues, there are many sounds and possibilities in the Voyager which the MultiMoog can't do - and to some extent the opposite is also true. So they WILL often sound different, but they don't HAVE TO sound different for many targeted sounds.

Clearly, the MultiMoog is a great synth with a lot of character - it is ridiculously easy to get lots of great, typical Moog sound from it. My friend has done the filter input mod for improved bass response, and we got some unreal, unique bass sounds from the Multimoog due to its sub-oscillator function which the Voyager apparently cannot approximate.

My guess is that the Minimoog is even closer to the Multimoog than the Voyager. However, it does have a different user interface and that in itself will create a different feeling of the synth and be likely to trigger the creation of different sounds. I would like to emphasize one additional thing in particular: the after-touch feature in the Multimoog is FANTASTIC! In fact, I find it to work smoother than the Voyager's!

Of course, the Voyager is super-classy in terms of the keyboard feel and the way the knobs operate. The Multimoog can't compete here but then you would expect this difference just by looking at the prices.

In summary, I can only concur with those who find the Multimoog will yield different sounds than the Minimoog (if only due to the different user interface) on one hand, but will nevertheless give very, very good sounds of typical Moog-character on the other hand. I love the Voyager, but found the Multimoog entirely gratifying, too.

Tilmann

[mee3d]

Welcome Dr T . . and thanks for the great review!

what we really needed was someone with both instruments side by side as I could only comment from remembering what the multi sounded like (and Nick too).

When I had all my moogs together (Prodigy, Source, Multimoog, Minimoog and Voyager SE), I was able to do similar test but I could never match on any of the synths the sound from my model D . . it had the RMS filter overdrive modification which really made it sound ballsy . . so perhaps that's why the multi never sounded as good to me.

You are right though in saying it is a great synth . . I loved the sound of the multimoog and wished that I had never sold my mint condition one (I ended up selling my mini as well . . every day I play my Voyager, I cry a little in remembrance).

Mal

My LAM minimoog D with RMS modifications . . now sold

[eric coleridge]

Welcome Dr T . . and thanks for the great review!

My LAM minimoog D with RMS modifications . . now sold

Holy crap, I'm crying for you now too; That's the coolest Mini I've ever seen. I love that Micro-style ribbon controller... beatiful.

What a great controller, the ribbon. When I got my Micro for $40 in '93, the ribbon was all torn up and split in the middle. But it worked great none the less.

[LWG]

Hello,

I'd consider the Micro and Multi a different line/branch in the Moog/Norlin product range. It may be best to consider them on their own terms.
Dr. Moog and Jim Scott designed the Micro and it's probable that after that, Dr. Moog began work on the guitar effects/amps and Norlin did the Multi as an elaboration of the Micro's design, adding pressure sensitivity (which is a badass contoller) and a few additional functions.
At the time, Moog didn't really market the Micro as a 'model D chopdown', or even claim that it reproduced the same sonority as the D.
It was pitched as an alternative or beginner's synth. Herdie Hancock replaced the Oddy with it in his touring rig, as it possibly proved a bit more roadworthy, because he still used the Oddy in the studio.
The ads at that time don't seem to mention the D and the points that were used to sell the Micro emphasized everything that made it different from the previous Moog product, i.e. it was actually distanced from the D in their marketing approach, with the exception of the "fat Moog sound", but that was used in a more general sense.
Among those things emphasized in ads were: portability, variable waveshaping, S&H, reverse contouring, sub-octave, osc thermal contrl ckt, ribbon controller.
The ribbon was innovative enough that RMS and Moog (through Rich Walborn) offered aftermarket alternative controller sections with the ribbon for the Mini as well.
Actually, an alternative ctrl section with a ribbon for the V'ger and/or Phatty might not be a bad idea, as the advantage of the ribbon was that
it could be used for pitch bends, vibrato, and trills from the same device, while freeing up the mod wheel to be assigned to other functions.


Regards,


Lawrence

[eric coleridge]

Awesome post Lawrence; Thanks for the perspective.

I don't know if you were playing back in the 70s, but I wasn't, and I really like getting some insight on these instruments from the point of view of the musicians who originally played them. I came into analog synths way past their heyday--when I started playing (early 90s) it was almost like re-discovering some forgotten technology. With forums like this (and postings like yours) I've been able to get a better handle on which boards the original players used and liked and considered good. Which is useful if you don't have access to every synth...

Do you by any chance know what boards George Clinton and Funkadelic used. On "Atomic Dog" for instance, it sounds like an Oddy (for the wispy lfo'd string sounds at least)...

[EricK]

Eric,
Im not exactly sure why the mini stopped production. Im speculating that it coudl have been due to financial constraints because Ill bet that Bob wanted to leave the company by 78. Im just guessing because I don't have the firsthand knowledge.

I also have to admit that I don't know a whole lot about synths except the micro cause i have a decent amount of experience on one, and im learning more and more all the time about the Voyager, and im hoping it will return from the factory soon.

I know that i like the pitch ribbon better than the wheel on the voyager because the weel is much tighter than i woudl have guessed, but ill bet that it holds up better.

That Mini pic is awesome, I didn't notice the ribbon on there until i read it in the following post.


I will say this though, ill bet that the MultiMoog is great, Now I haven't seen or heard a true Mini in person, but I can say that I know that i have gotten some sounds out of the Micro that were really close. I also have to point out that the Micro will produce more raw sawtooth bass than the Voyager as far as i have found.


I don't remember the preset name for the bass sound that I got out of the voyager i think it was Hella Bass. The Micro and its vintage components (were they discreet?) just sounded much better. Id have to run them through the exact same amp to be sure. THe hella bass had that sawtooth spacing that made it fat but it seemed like it had more treble. It sounded like it was ripping a hole in my ears while the micro sounded like it was ripping a hole in my ears, it also had that sub bass with it.

Gotta go to work to earn the money to pay off my Voyager.

The delay pedal is goign to be next and then the expansion boxes.
Great discussion guys.
Eric