unequal temperament
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unequal temperament
has anyone tried unequal temeraments on the voyager? someone posted something here a while ago about microtonal music getting the response that the voyager is hard-wired to equal temerament. there was another discussion on tuning where someone posted that tuning the voyager is currently undocumented.
the only way i can think of to get alternative temperaments to work is to use an external keyboard, and then get some kind of midi event processor to send pitch bend messages along with each note number message it gets.
i'm guessing something like the midi solutions event processor ( http://www.midisolutions.com/prodepp.htm ) could be configured to do this. one thing i don't like about this approach is that i'd like to be able to use the actual pitch bender in some situations in addition to having things play normally in a just tempered scale. and i'd also like to be able to use the built-in keyboard rather than having to use an external one with a rack-mount unit.
one reason unequal temperament is important to me is that i want to play against a drone and i want all the intervals against the drone to be beat-free.
the only way i can think of to get alternative temperaments to work is to use an external keyboard, and then get some kind of midi event processor to send pitch bend messages along with each note number message it gets.
i'm guessing something like the midi solutions event processor ( http://www.midisolutions.com/prodepp.htm ) could be configured to do this. one thing i don't like about this approach is that i'd like to be able to use the actual pitch bender in some situations in addition to having things play normally in a just tempered scale. and i'd also like to be able to use the built-in keyboard rather than having to use an external one with a rack-mount unit.
one reason unequal temperament is important to me is that i want to play against a drone and i want all the intervals against the drone to be beat-free.
Hi chris allert,
the PITCH input, when a CV is applied to it, changes the behaviour of the pitch more or less.
E.g.:
if the PITCH output from the VX-351 is connected to one (of the two) adjustable input of the FOUR-INPUT MIXER of a CP-251, and then the - OUT (minus OUT) of that mixer is connected to the above mentioned PITCH input of the MMV, then "interesting things" are possibly.
Turn the attenuator of that used mixer input to 10, the offset knob into the middle position, the master knob to 10, then change this knob a little bit backwards, change the position of the offset knob, etc...
This is only an example.
the PITCH input, when a CV is applied to it, changes the behaviour of the pitch more or less.
E.g.:
if the PITCH output from the VX-351 is connected to one (of the two) adjustable input of the FOUR-INPUT MIXER of a CP-251, and then the - OUT (minus OUT) of that mixer is connected to the above mentioned PITCH input of the MMV, then "interesting things" are possibly.
Turn the attenuator of that used mixer input to 10, the offset knob into the middle position, the master knob to 10, then change this knob a little bit backwards, change the position of the offset knob, etc...
This is only an example.
Frank
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sorry, reading my original post, i realized that i wasn't clear about what i'm trying to do. basically i'd like to play in historic temperaments where all ratios against the fundamental are simple integers. in other words, i'm trying to optimize the voyager to playing in one key. here's a pretty good introduction to the subject of unequal temperaments:FrankB wrote:
the PITCH input, when a CV is applied to it, changes the behaviour of the pitch more or less.
http://www.dolmetsch.com/musictheory27.htm
basically what it means is that some notes on the twelve-tone scale should be flat a certain amount and some should be sharp. so i'm trying to find a good way to tell the voyager how flat or sharp i want each note to be. for example, here are the values rounded to the nearest cent sharp or flat from equal temperament for a pure just scale ("pure just scale" is an oversimplification in the interests of keeping this comment short):
C = 1/1 = 0
C# = 16/15 = 12
D = 9/8 = 4
D# = 6/5 = 16
E = 5/4 = -16
F = 4/3 = -2
F# = 45/32 = -10
G = 3/2 = 2
G# = 8/5 = 14
A = 5/3 = -16
A# = 9/5 = 18
B = 15/8 = -12
so what i'm looking for is for some way to tell the voyager (as well as many other midi-controlled instruments), that every time i play an A#, it should be 18 cents sharp, but every time i play an E it should be 16 cents flat, and every time i play a C it should not be changed. Some synthesizers have support for sending different tuning tables to them (many roland models, for example), but no currently manufactured analog synthesizers or midi-cv converters seem to support this.
Mmmh, you might need to build a little microprocessor box that translates incomming midi note (equal tempered) to midi notes plus some pitchbend information to get the needed scales.
This would need a kind of programming to select the right amount of pitch bend for the selected synth playing the data. And the right conversation table to get the right results in the selected mean tone, or what ever scale.
A good link about what is featured in some Waldorf synths is here:
http://www.hermode.de (in german and english)
For all that never played perfect tuned scales, this is a must hear !
Some chord will change their charactr from hars/sharp sounding to smooth doing so.
And even strange jazz like chords suddenly make more sense.
This would need a kind of programming to select the right amount of pitch bend for the selected synth playing the data. And the right conversation table to get the right results in the selected mean tone, or what ever scale.
A good link about what is featured in some Waldorf synths is here:
http://www.hermode.de (in german and english)
For all that never played perfect tuned scales, this is a must hear !
Some chord will change their charactr from hars/sharp sounding to smooth doing so.
And even strange jazz like chords suddenly make more sense.
keep on turning these Moog knobs
Prodigy * minimoog '79 * Voyager * MF102 * MF103 * MF104z * MP201 * Taurus 3 * Minitaur * Sub Phatty * MF105 * Minimoog 2017+ MUSE * One 16 (sold)
Prodigy * minimoog '79 * Voyager * MF102 * MF103 * MF104z * MP201 * Taurus 3 * Minitaur * Sub Phatty * MF105 * Minimoog 2017+ MUSE * One 16 (sold)
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more developments
i've gotten an e-mail back from someone at midisolutions.com responding to my query. it's possible to configure the event processor plus to filter up to 16 notes and add pitch bend messages to them. so to cover the entire midi range, you would have to string 16 of these together. the processor has room for 32 commands, but you have to use two for each note: one to send the pitch bend message, and another to send the original midi note that it mapped to a pitch bend message. these devices are US$149 each from a few different vendors, so 16 of them would add up to $2384. but i could cover four octaves for $747 with three of them.
the midisolutions.com web-site advertises that they do custom programming, and i'm waiting to hear back on how much it would be to make a more special-purpose device for this. the event processor plus has an option for selecting a range of notes. if the device could be hacked to select a range based on modulo arithmetic (every 12th note beginning with x) rather than range (notes >x and <y) then one device would be enough.
i don't know anything about real-time embedded programming, but it looks like i may need to learn to get the device i want.
the midisolutions.com web-site advertises that they do custom programming, and i'm waiting to hear back on how much it would be to make a more special-purpose device for this. the event processor plus has an option for selecting a range of notes. if the device could be hacked to select a range based on modulo arithmetic (every 12th note beginning with x) rather than range (notes >x and <y) then one device would be enough.
i don't know anything about real-time embedded programming, but it looks like i may need to learn to get the device i want.
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Re: more developments
Why not split the original MIDI information, letting the box generate the pitch bend, then using a MIDI Merge box to put the pitch bend back with the note info? Beats cutting the functionality of your processor box in half, in my opinion.chris allert wrote:it's possible to configure the event processor plus to filter up to 16 notes and add pitch bend messages to them. so to cover the entire midi range, you would have to string 16 of these together. the processor has room for 32 commands, but you have to use two for each note: one to send the pitch bend message, and another to send the original midi note that it mapped to a pitch bend message.
-Hoax
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Re: more developments
that sounds like a good idea. i wonder if things will get out of synch if i do this. it's worth a try anyway since the split and merge boxes could be useful for something else even if it doesn't work out.Cruel Hoax wrote:Why not split the original MIDI information, letting the box generate the pitch bend, then using a MIDI Merge box to put the pitch bend back with the note info? Beats cutting the functionality of your processor box in half, in my opinion.chris allert wrote:it's possible to configure the event processor plus to filter up to 16 notes and add pitch bend messages to them. so to cover the entire midi range, you would have to string 16 of these together. the processor has room for 32 commands, but you have to use two for each note: one to send the pitch bend message, and another to send the original midi note that it mapped to a pitch bend message.
-Hoax
but maybe the previous poster is right. maybe i should just resign myself to lugging a laptop around everywhere. if i could get a palmpilot to do what i want, that would be really cool...
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Re: Unequal Temprements
that's what's so frustrating about this, is that it's so easy to accomplish on a computer, but so difficult to accomplish without one.
i think what i'm going to end up doing is getting a midi-solutions event processor, and then mapping all the note-on messages to program changes, having one patch per note on the synthesizer, where each patch is just a drone tuned to the frequency i want. i may also send out a cc message for the velocity from the note on. and i can still use the pitch bend this way. i may still get midi-solutions to make me a customized pitch-bender box, since mapping notes to program changes only works with analog synthesizers that can store patches
MOTM is advertising a MIDI->CV converter capable of microtuning, which might be worth a look. Check out:
http://www.synthtech.com/new_stuff.html
And scroll down a ways.
http://www.synthtech.com/new_stuff.html
And scroll down a ways.
http://www.signalarts.ca/satspecs.html
Adjustable volts/octave scaling.
BTW, I'm up north in Marysville.
Adjustable volts/octave scaling.

BTW, I'm up north in Marysville.