Ableton Slim Phatty midi issues

[mrblitz]

This is the second post i have made tonight...i deleted the first one...it wasn't very clear.

If anyone could shed some light on my issues, id be very grateful.

I can record automation from my Slim Phatty into Ableton only when i do not have any midi messages being sent to it. Is this normal? I imagine not...i'd hope that the Slim Phatty is capable of both sending and receiving midi messages at the same time. The question i have is how do i do it?

I am using Ableton...i have the SP set up as an external instrument...i can record notes into Ableton from a keyboard (connected through the same midi interface as the SP...a focusrite saffire pro 14). When i play the midi clip back the SP receives the data and plays back the notes i have recorded.

Next i want to record a snappy, rhythmic filter pattern...so, i highlight the clip in Ableton...click the 'E' button to show the midi envelopes...choose overdub mode...hit record...and the SP starts responding so incredibly inaccurately...very choppy and slow...the data that Ableton receives and records is an exact representation of the weird jerky response i got from the SP during the recording process...jumping all over the place.

Next...i delete the envelope i just recorded...i set the midi output channel (from ableton to the SP) to a channel not used by the SP...so the SP is not responding to any midi notes at all...hit record, and the SP filter knob is recorded into Ableton perfectly...smooth, responsive...a perfect representation. Only problem is that i can't hear the SP while i am attempting to record automation because i had to stop the notes from being sent to the SP in order to get good recording response from the front panel knobs. When i play back the combined data through the SP it sounds perfect. It's like Moog/Ableton based catch 22.

The SP responds fine until i arm the midi channel with the external instrument...i don't even have to click the record button, arming the channel slows the response down dramatically. Is this an Ableton issue?

Seems like something is up here...i cant work out what. I tried midi cables and USB, and a combination of both. I also just tried a M-Audio Midisport 2x2 Anniversary edition, to try and split the in and out midi messages onto two differnt channels and two different interfaces. For some reason the Midisport sends the note and filter CC data from Ableton to the SP, but although i can see the midi in message on the SP, and see the light around the filter knob move...no sound comes out of the SP at all.

Is this a common SP problem?
Do i need two separate midi interfaces?
Will Logic solve this problem?

Surely someone must have had some success at this process. I'd very much like to hear any possible fixes.

Thanks

[mrblitz]

I sort of solved it.

I changed the analogue mode to 'SNAP'

and enabled 14bit mode.

however i still get an envelope with stepped values, rather than smooth slanted envelope lines.

so ultimately still looking for a solution, as i have to go over the recorded automation and re draw it so the lines are smooth, not stepped all the way through.

[Vitja]

Well, it is really confusing.
I'm trying to solve this for ever since I got my SP.

Although I'm not using external instrument device, I had the same problems.

Instead I use just MIDI track.

I'm always monitoring my external gear from the Audio interface directly, so I avoid the monitoring latency.

The problem was a combination of monitoring MIDI and Overdubbing.

I still have no clue what would be perfect solution, but I'm getting close with Clyphx commands.

If you don't know, Clyphex is remote script for Live. You can do many things not possible with just Live's interfacing. Especially in a real time fashion.

So I programed some commands:

With one toggle button I can select Input routing and channel and toggle Overdub on and off.
But I'm not sure if this can help anything. But for my use, I wanted to turn input routing on and off.

I'm still really confused about this, but I'm working on this at the moment, so maybe I can solve this in a few days.

One thing that it drives me crazy are the envelopes in LIve.

When recording them, you should watch that you record just one loop, otherwise the values that you are recording, will jump to zero when loop is back at 1.1.1. This is really stupid.
I also find the end of envelopes problematic. Actually the biggest problem is that you can't record all the envelopes to Live from the specific preset. You can achieve this by buying the editor for phatty, which is BTW not really rock solid, and drive your SP with it't VST plugin.

I would be really happy if you could just record all the envelopes to Live MIDI clip and have something like default values in envelopes, so all the envelopes that you record would be locked in the end of the clip, with option to override this. With this you could work around a preset sound.