Analog sequencer (which to buy?)

[EMwhite]

As threatened in Eric's SNOW post, I was to post a query to solicit thoughts on the Doepfer Dark Time (vs. Synth.com Q109) for sequencing my Voyage Old School and other gear.

Then I realized that Synth.com also makes the Q960. I read the 'compare' page on the Synth.com site and couldn't be more confused. At the end of it, the Synth.com guy says "confused? Flip a coin...". It's getting to that.

Money aside, which of the two synth.com units is preferred? Looking for Kevin, CZ Rider and other posters with Moog Modular to give their input as well (please). As for the Dark Time, I've seen some YouTube videos popping up now and have read the manual extensively. Certainly does alot for bridging Midi and control voltage, the quantize feature looks to really help you make musical sequencers (vs. being off by fractions of a semitone which I would expect would be frustrating).

My ultimate question is... if I do not believe I will ever have a proper Modular, should I take the plunge into some Synth.com gear and one of Q sequencers or do you think that the Dark Time is a compelling option (looks to be about the same price as the Q109

Sorry for writing so much here, just hoping to get some thoughts. Thanks folks.

[Brian G]

I went through the same thing a few months ago .

The synth dot com gear no doubt are very nice and well made. The Q119 is a great sequencer, along with a few of the sequential switches you can do a lot. A have a friend who has one and loves it.
What I gather from the dot com web page the 960 has more flexibility built in, then even more using the extra modules designed for sequence use. With either if you do not already have a modular system you will need some kind of rack to mount either. Then you will also need a power supply both of which will add to the final cost. Both will work both could even co-exist down the road.

The Doepfer Dark Time is going to be a killer little sequencer. Sure the dot com has some benefits over the DT but I think over all it is a powerful, useful sequencer that will stand on it’s own. For me it made the most sense, I did not want to also purchase a rack and powe supply. The DT will fit in the studio nicely and not take up a lot of space. For the price point it has several nice features. I f you look at Doepfers site they have been posting update, “First run is sold out, second run is sold out, third run should be ready in March” kind of thing. I can wai . One of the possible down sides is that it uses 1/8th mini jacks. That does not bother me though, that’s what custom cables and or adapters are for. The knobs do look a bit closer together than the dot com ones so that may/could take some getting used to, but for me everything pointed to the DT. Down the road I may add the 119 or 960 but at this point I’m very happy with my choice. Just wish it would get here .

I’ll be posting video’s as soon as it comes in, okay maybe a few days after it comes in.

Good luck

[EricK]

I would have preferred the 960-63 combo, but in order to get the sequencer I sold my modusonics 921a driver (which was a hard decision to make). I couldn't be happier. I think hands down the 960 is the big boy. If you are looking at the two Id get that one. If you can swing it though, get the associated modules with it. I immediately realized that I need a vca and envgens also so I can use the freqbox


Pricewise the q119 is a great sequencer. THe thing though is that to initially step into the modular world, you need either a rack+rack frame+power supply, but if you have a cabinet and power supply already its not such a bad initial plunge. I don't know where you are in that process. You can get one of those cheap desktop rack frames or some rails and some plywood.


I think though that the analog sequencer to get would probably be this, but a spec vs feature comparison is in order:


Moon has quite a few sequencers on this link.
http://noisebug.net/site/effects/index.cfm?ID=157


What do you mean by "proper modular"?

[EMwhite]

What do you mean by "proper modular"?

I work with too many folks from EMEA; as a result I end up using terms like 'proper' which is to say that a full blown Modular vs. the pseudo 'modular' which is what I have the makings of now.

"the makings of" = using some combination of my MP-201, VX-351, envelopes from my old school, a few foggers, CV out from my Phatty, etc. I've rigged up some pretty good patches and combination, even thrown my SEM into the mix.

I have zero interest in getting my hands on OSCs and synth.com filters, etc. a) don't have the $$ b) don't have the space. I had toyed with the idea of putting together a non-audio modular simply to control CV; that would be:

- instrument interface
- slew
- ADSR
- sequencer
- etc.

Jury still out. Looking forward to more replies, thank you for what you guys have contributed thus far.

[EricK]

Yeah right man, thats what you say now hahahaha.

There is nothing like a "proper" modular, just like you can't have too many shells on your trapset.

Heres whats going to happen:
Youll get a nice sequencer, and youll have to get a few modules for modulation, but then you'll have one space left over and find yourself really needing a double wide module. So, rather than have a module outside of the system, youll buy another rack frame. Or youll have a cabinet that is half empty, and you'll yearn to fill it.

My solution is that no matter what size modular I will have, I wil have a logo panel for every brand in the system. This means that at least 8 spaces will always be empty. Until I require a power supply upgrade, expansion will always be necessary. heh

JUst drop the dime on a 960.

[Just Me]

Depending on what kind of music you are striving for, the Q-960 is the most PLAYABLE sequencer out there. You do need the extra modules for that playability, however. The Q-119 is one of the most AFFORDABLE sequencers for its feature set.
The Moon Modular stuff is over the top, both in power and price. Pretty tough to beat yet hard to afford!
One thing that will make the Q-119 a better buy is the trigger interface that Grove Audio is about to release. This will give a fistfull of new playable functionality to the Q-119.
Something that no one has mentioned yet is the STG sequencer suite. Very powerfull in a very small footprint. Also expandable as needed. They are also about to release a clock divider module to go with the suite. ( www.stgsoundlabs.com )
There is also the Doepfer MAQ 16/3 to consider. Very good for TD type stuff. Plays well with CV and MIDI.
As far as proper modular... I started off with 2 CP-251 for signal processing. Then added 11U of MU modules to do things the CP could not do. I'm at 88U of MU now and trying to resist the temptaion for another cabinet.

[Kevin Lightner]

Fwiw, I have a Moog 55A here being restored and a new Moon modular sequencer as shown in the pic above in this thread.
I've yet to complete the job or install the sequencer though, so no idea of its strengths or weaknesses yet.
I *did* convert all the S-trigs on the Moog to V-trigs too, so this should make for greater patching possibilities than if the Moog was stock.

So in a few weeks I'll likely finish the whole beast and put some videos up on YouTube.

I should also mention that I'm just about done restoring one of those big Moog rackmount vocoders and wow, what a great a sounding machine.
Put a drum machine in one input, a mic in the other and you can do "instant rap" where the words are always perfectly rhythmic. A really bizarre, but musically interesting effect.

[ColorForm2113]

Its not an analog sequencer but definately worth looking. Check out the Sequentix Cirklon. The new videos he posted on youtube controlling a mini jp8 303 and I think 909 are just amazing. Rough song but its more about features and control. And there is a breakout cv box with assignable jacks available too.

Oh and kevin, could you post a good demo of the moog vocoder if at all possible. I've been dying for a walk thru on all the features and tricks you can do with it. Thanks!

[Niko]

After christmas I've got one of the first Doepfer Dark Time sequencers. It makes a lot of fun to play with it and to enjoy the intuitive and direct operating and access to the separate steps and sequences. I've connected it via analog CV and Gate with the Voyager and via MIDI with the Doepfer Dark Energy module. Apart from the excellent performance features the design fits very well to the Moog Voyager, although the size of the knobs are smaller. Synchroniziation with a Mooger Fooger MIDIMurf offers additional awsome possibilities. With the patch cables a real modular feeling is achieved- just a little smaller, but size (sometimes) doesn't matter.
The only current problem- at least in Germany I've observed, is the availability. The delivery time is quite long but it is worth to wait.

[EMwhite]

Very nice Niko, thanks for that.

Being so close to Doepfer, do you have any experience with the Maq 16/3 product that they sold years back? If so, a) how would you compare the capabilities and b) does the code base seem to have been developed from the Maq?

Certainly the Dark Time appears to have more of an analog look/feel.

[Brian G]

Niko, congratulations on having one of the first DT. Sounds like you are enjoying the DT with the rest of your set-up.

I know the DT is going to be worth the wait, so for now I'll have to enjoy hearing and watching waht others have done with it. I already have a few ideas for the first few recordings with it. I see they next batch should be ready in April .

[DeFrag]

The Doepfer seemed complicated so I got the Manikin Schrittmacher instead.

[EMwhite]

I'm about as confused as can be by the 960 and various add-ons.

Can somebody point me to a resource that provides some examples of how it can be used. I'm not frightened by the fact that I'll need add-ons, just not sure how it all goes together. Usually I have a pretty good grasp of Control Voltage and modular piece parts but in this case...

Maybe somebody can tell me what you cannot do with the 960 out of the box as compared to the other Q.

Any resources or videos that walk through will be helpful. Thanks.

[EricK]

With the q119 you get three rows of 8. You can run them as three simultaneous banks or 1 bank 24 stages long.
Each bank has a pitch and gate cv out.
Each time it pases a stage it sends a gate signal on that bank's output.

On the 960, you can get a gate output for each individual stage right out of the box.

THis is beneficial to create more rhythmic events, as you have the OPTION to choose which gate triggered events you want and dont want.

This feature alone gives you so much more ability to do things than just the q119 out of the box.

Check out this guy's videos. He is a majot contributor on the synthesizers.com forum and has a killer system.
http://www.youtube.com/user/morbius001

And then theres our friend John L Rice who has been feeding his synth with miraclegro for the last few years:
http://www.youtube.com/user/JohnLRice#p ... t-Z7hZcqmY

That demo is a COTK 960.





My opinion: You will be happy with the q119, but will yearn for the 960.


THere is a whole lot more to the associated modules and Im not in a position to speak beyond what I've already said.




Edit:
Try moogarchives.com, read the functional and musical descriptions for the 960/961/962.

[EricK]

Heres one Just me posted for me the other day....him using the 960's voltage selector on the q119:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r11dWZfvgT8