Any Minimoog owners that also really like the Little Phatty?

[muksys]

calling it a toy. It's your opinion, but it kinda seems like you are decrying it simply because it's not a Voyager. With that rational, it would be pointless to own anything else but a Voyager, right?

[EricK]

Nah,
Hey, anyone that knows me knows that I'm far too long winded enough on my own that putting words in my mouth is not necessary

My answer (for once) was pretty much in line with the topic, though Im not a D owner and I don't think my position on the subject stems from an "elitist" attitude either.

Simply put, I have a lot of complaints about the LP that preclude it from being considered for my needs.

[Kenneth]

I'm a Little Phatty owner and I am going to side with Eric on this one. Though I don't think the LP should be thought of as a toy, it is simply not in the same league as the D or Voyager. It sounds good and it has a lot of versatility for an instrument in its price range, but apart from that there really are a lot of shortcomings I have experienced in the synth. Part of the chassis is made of plastic, the pitch and mod wheels deteriorate rapidly when used heavily, the MIDI implementation is unreliable, and it has one the clunkiest, most uninspiring keybeds I have ever touched. These flaws all shed light on the build quality and who Moog is trying to sell it to: people who can't afford a Voyager. I'm one of those people, so I bought a Phatty. Does it hold its own against the Voyager? No way. Is it worth $1400? Absolutely.

[muksys]

I completely agree, but saying its a toy is selling it waaay short is all.

[Sir Nose]

All my synths are toys

[EricK]

I said it was LIKE a toy compared to the Voyager.

I say that for all the reasons listed above.

First I didn't like the name. Second, I don't care for the interface (or lack thereof) or the feel of the keys, the pots, and I could do without the rubber buttons. On the unit I tested, the rubberized plastic sides were loose, and I felt that the rubber on the pitch and modwheels was going to disientegrate after a good sweat session. I don't like the fact that you can't adjust more than one parameter at a time on a module (for instance, you can't adjust the filter cutoff and resonance simultaneously). I also didn't care for the number of keys, as I was coming from the Micromoog and was looking for a few more octaves at least.

It felt like a toy moog. A Chinese sweatshop synth with the Moog sound and an adolescant name.

I'm referring to the stage 1 edition. I understand that improvements were made, but still they could have kept WOOD in the equation.

But, like the Micromoog, if the idea is to cut back so you can make it more affordable, look at the difference between the D and the Micro. Id say that making that comparison, they did a little bit better when designing the Phatty.


If I ever get to the point where I want a complete synth voice to expand into a polysynth, I seriously doubt it will consist of a bank of slims.


Phatty owners don't have to have their egos bruised because not everyone loves the phatty. I know how the man-machine love is with a Moog, I get sensitive when Voltor makes fun of the wood laminate sides on my Mirco.

[museslave]

...To say "to each his own" in regard to these two synths is just obnoxious starry-eyed ignorance.

Hmm, talk about nastyness...

There is such a thing as respect for other people's preferences and budget, ya know ?

It's not about nasty, it's about an objective viewpoint.
It is not nasty to be honest and objective.
Preference is subjective. Functionality + the average of professional experience in regard to aural preference is NOT objective. There is a reason why MInimoogs are expensive, sought after, and historically relevant that is NOT "I just think it sounds nice."
As for budget... yeah, I have no respect for budget. I'm not going to describe a synthesizer as musically useful, aurally beautiful, or functionally amazing just so someone without any money will not get their feelings hurt.

[museslave]

Re: I specifically decried the Little Phatty... until I was fortunate enough to play with one

I fail to understand how anyone can denigrate anything without having first hand experience...

Well, let me help you. The Phatty is a economical synth which lacks a knob-per-function interface and looks very much like a means to deliver Moog to a set of users with less money and less interest in actual synthesis. That viewpoint is very adequately and rationally supported by the fact that the Phatty is a two-osc synth without knob-per-function and a focus on presets which has a considerably lower price point than the synths that Moog specifically states are for professionals.
As a musician and synthesizer professional who reasonably assesses synths based upon their functionality, price point, and users... the Little Phatty seemed like a more consumer-model synth. I decried it because I was accustomed to Moogs historically having knob-per-function and a more professionally-aimed intention. THAT is the source of my decrying. Is that challenging to understand?
But all of that is irrelevant unless you seek to undermine my viewpoint... which is silly, because plainly you believe that the Phatty is a valuable synth... which I specifically stated. If you want to contest my assertions, then go for the assertions instead of suggesting some sort of ignorance based on an assumption that is logically and factionally defendable.
Especially since I later indicated that I actually endorse the Phatty.

[muksys]

...To say "to each his own" in regard to these two synths is just obnoxious starry-eyed ignorance.

Hmm, talk about nastyness...

There is such a thing as respect for other people's preferences and budget, ya know ?

It's not about nasty, it's about an objective viewpoint.
It is not nasty to be honest and objective.
Preference is subjective. Functionality + the average of professional experience in regard to aural preference is NOT objective. There is a reason why MInimoogs are expensive, sought after, and historically relevant that is NOT "I just think it sounds nice."
As for budget... yeah, I have no respect for budget. I'm not going to describe a synthesizer as musically useful, aurally beautiful, or functionally amazing just so someone without any money will not get their feelings hurt.

I guess my whole thing is the cost of something shouldn't dictate usefulness or aural quality. Look at the Roland TB-303. It's basically a small, crappy synth, but the one little thing it does, it does well. Well enough for people to pay 6x what it's original cost was.

Granted, I will be getting a Voyager XL, hopefully within the next year because it's a "dream" synth of mine. But, that does not mean that I will automatically sell my LP because I have just upped the budget bracket. That would be outright silly.

My point is, beautiful music can be crafted from the cheapest of instruments and/or the most expensive of instruments. The LP is just another means to the end. Another aural palate to add to the overall spectrum of ones music.

[Voltor07]

I guess my whole thing is the cost of something shouldn't dictate usefulness or aural quality. Look at the Roland TB-303. It's basically a small, crappy synth, but the one little thing it does, it does well. Well enough for people to pay 6x what it's original cost was.

Granted, I will be getting a Voyager XL, hopefully within the next year because it's a "dream" synth of mine. But, that does not mean that I will automatically sell my LP because I have just upped the budget bracket. That would be outright silly.

My point is, beautiful music can be crafted from the cheapest of instruments and/or the most expensive of instruments. The LP is just another means to the end. Another aural palate to add to the overall spectrum of ones music.

I have heard synths costing thousands of dollars that don't sound as good as the Little Phatty. I have also heard synths costing around $200 (sometimes less) that sound excellent to my ears. Point is, cost is not a factor I use to decide what synth I want to buy. If I can't afford something, like a Voyager, it doesn't make me want one any less, but I will find REASONABLE alternatives. Is the LP a reasonable alternative to a Voyager? Not really. But it is a unique synth, with its good points.

[EricK]

What synth cost thousands more than, but didn't sound as good as the phatty?

[artpunk]

Re: I specifically decried the Little Phatty... until I was fortunate enough to play with one

I fail to understand how anyone can denigrate anything without having first hand experience...

Well, let me help you. The Phatty is a economical synth which lacks a knob-per-function interface and looks very much like a means to deliver Moog to a set of users with less money and less interest in actual synthesis. That viewpoint is very adequately and rationally supported by the fact that the Phatty is a two-osc synth without knob-per-function and a focus on presets which has a considerably lower price point than the synths that Moog specifically states are for professionals.
As a musician and synthesizer professional who reasonably assesses synths based upon their functionality, price point, and users... the Little Phatty seemed like a more consumer-model synth. I decried it because I was accustomed to Moogs historically having knob-per-function and a more professionally-aimed intention. THAT is the source of my decrying. Is that challenging to understand?
But all of that is irrelevant unless you seek to undermine my viewpoint... which is silly, because plainly you believe that the Phatty is a valuable synth... which I specifically stated. If you want to contest my assertions, then go for the assertions instead of suggesting some sort of ignorance based on an assumption that is logically and factionally defendable.
Especially since I later indicated that I actually endorse the Phatty.

Ohhh the sarcasm in "is that challenging to understand" !! I love it. I hear your points, but no, they don't excuse the premise that you can decry anything that needs experiencing to accurately judge it without experiencing it! which is what you stated you did...
"you want to contest my assertions, then go for the assertions instead of suggesting some sort of ignorance based on an assumption that is logically and factionally defendable"
Ah, no, it (judging something without actually experiencing it) is not (logically and factionable defendable) - that is just your opinion on your opinion! Yes, I am suggesting some sort of ignorance, in just that one point, but don't get too upset, it doesn't mean you aren't a knowledgeable person otherwise. From time to time we all make judgements based on what we think we know rather than what we actually know from experience, and at least you honestly admitted it! I mean, you do know what they say about assumptions don't you? Really, mine was an off the cuff comment, as I have seen these kind of judgements in forums many times before and still don't get it, I didn't really expect an answer from you, because you actually did delineate that your initial viewpoint was wrong, but the fact that you reacted in such a way to me shows I might have struck a bit of a chord, don't sweat the fact that I picked that one little bit of your statement, I do agree with most of what you say (not that that matters one way or another)

BTW this relatively minor disagreement you & I are having has nothing to do with the fact that you later changed your mind about the phatty (which some might say reinforces my point about the dangers of decrying anything not experienced) It also isn't about whether I think the Phatty's ok or not for me, (because I DON'T KNOW due to the fact that apart from a few minutes in the shop I haven't experienced it, but I have no doubt it is a very acceptable synth for many users) I was actually initially saying (or trying to say) that any tool is useful in the right hands (ie it's not about the equipment, but who uses it)
Here, I am just responding to let you know that I don't really need you to help me - all the stuff you spouted after offering to 'help me' in my 'misunderstanding' is obvious to anyone who can read and compare spec sheets, (oh, apart from this bit: "a means to deliver Moog to a set of users with less money and less interest in actual synthesis" - really? Less money I can understand, but 'less interest in actual synthesis' is another potentially misguided assumption I would say) Besides which, I don't know how experienced you are, but I have been learning about and playing on synths since the end of the 1970's (yes I am an old bastard, a grumpy old bastard at the moment!) so don't presume to teach me anything please!

[Kenneth]

What synth cost thousands more than, but didn't sound as good as the phatty?

Probably the Jupiter 80 or Kronos or some other crappy pile of workstation excrement from Roland or Korg.

[stiiiiiiive]

yes I am an old bastard, a grumpy old bastard at the moment!

On another valuable forum I am frequenting, they say you are allowed to be grumpy turned 40

[artpunk]

yes I am an old bastard, a grumpy old bastard at the moment!

On another valuable forum I am frequenting, they say you are allowed to be grumpy turned 40

I better join that forum!