Voyagers knobs as MIDI controllers

[marcelM]

hi,

The other day I was experimenting with MIDI learn of some software sythesizers (OP-X PRO-II Wave 3).
Via MIDI-learn, the hardwareknobs of the Voyager are coupled to the corresponding (or other) controller-knobs in the softwaresynthesizers
Indeed it worked but many Voyager knobs seem to send TWO controller data.

An example.
When I connect the Voyagers VCA-sustain the OP-X's VCA-Sustain two things happen:
- the sustain level of the OP-X changes accordingly (as should be)
- the arpeggiator of the OP-X changes its setting to one shot / off / hold. (that is the unwanted effect)

Many other Voyagers knobs have this unwanted double effect on the softsynth.

Surely I'm missing some understanding here, but what do I wrong?
Is it maybe related to the MIDI implementation of the Voyagers knobs (I see MSB / LSB values in the manual)?

[acatcalledanarchy]

Hi MarcelM

The Voyager is using 2 CC's for MSB & LSB

Peace, love and flowers

[marcelM]

hello acatcalledanarchy,

So my suspicion was right: many knobs send two CC's and so they control two parameters of other synthesizers.
Surely Moog meant the best with this implementation, but when controlling other devices I only need one CC per knob.
So, now I'm wondering if this factory-implemetation can be switched off somehow so that I get only my own MIDI-learned settings?
Or is it just not the Voyager's concept to be a fully fledged MIDI controller?
I just love those knobs you know

[CZ Rider]

Or is it just not the Voyager's concept to be a fully fledged MIDI controller?
I just love those knobs you know

The quick simplified answer is the Moog is set to the original MIDI spec that has CC#'s 0-31 doubled up on CC#'s 32-63. And the software you are using does not adhere to that standard.

This doubled CC with MSB/LSB, was done to give a higher resolution from 128 steps in the 0-127 MIDI CC positions to 16384 steps.
Moog did not go against the MIDI spec, and every doubled CC are the correct pairs. For example glide is CC#5 and CC#37. Would be the software designers that went against the MIDI spec by assigning MIDI CC#'s 32-63 to anything other than what is specified for the MSB/LSB CC's. I see this quite a bit and noticed makers like Line 6 assigining these MIDI CC parameters to this non-standard spliting. My guess is there are more parameters to change than the the original MIDI spec has, so they use the mostly ignored LSB CC's. And most don't need the extra resolution anyway.
Not aware of any way to turn off these extra resolution settings, other than the setting for MIDI mod wheel from 14-bit to 7-bit. FWIW the Voyager resolution is more like 256 steps with the double CC's and not 16384, but it is still twice the resolution of the standard 128 steps.
I know how discouraging it is to buy something to control your MIDI stuff, and it won't do what you need. I purchased an Access Indigo2 to control my live setup. I was so dissappointed to learn the Indigo would not send program change commands, but it would send every other MIDI message? Go figure.

[marcelM]

Thaks CZ rider for your answer.
To be honest, I do not fully understand what you wrote, especially the part about "correct pairs".
What is the connection between the value of the sustain level (that was MIDI-learned) and the fact that the same knob also controls the softsynths arpeggiator? (and the OP-X and the Waldorf Wave 3 are both pretty modern program's too)

I guess I have to do some reading about the newer, more-then-128-steps-MIDI-stuff.
But I'm still glad it was not my clumsiness in the first place that it didn't work as I planned.

Thanks again !

Marcel

[Syntholabo]

I am sending CC's (with pot 'local control' OFF) to my AKAI MPC 1000.
This system of sending two CC's (e.g. Filter cutoff on CC.19 and CC.51) is confusing. Seems fine if it gives you higher resolution, but I can't say it sounds very good when you record a sweep through the values.
If I send CC.19 (only) from the AKAI MPC, it seems as good as you would expect.
Do we just stick with this, and live with it? Is it better?
Any thoughts appreciated,
Matthew, Edinburgh, UK

[LivePsy]

Moog are strictly following the midi guidelines, and I believe Bob Moog was at least one person who insisted that CC resolution at 127 steps isn't enough. So it makes sense that Moog currently adhere to that by pairing of CC MSB and LSB. Moog and Big Briar were one of the first to get manufacturer ID's for sysex, so I assume the low numbers assigned indicate that Moog was at the forefront of MIDI design.

http://sequence15.blogspot.com/2008/12/ ... r-ids.html

So the short answer is that Moog is right and almost everyone else is wrong. While a voyager makes a fine keyboard, it is not the ideal midi controller for CCs. A single CC per knob controller is so cheap these days, and most hardware sequencing boxes can generate a single CC, this shouldn't really stop you making music.

B

[sunny pedaal]

the andromeda-a6 also works the way the moog works.
it's a better system/ resolution.

it's only a pity not many editors can handle it.
maybe when even more new synth's are implementing it ?
a vst version of the voyager-editor would also be a solution, just for incorporating the editor in cubase and other daw's...