MF101 VS MF105

[thecosmicorder]

Hi

I am new to all Moog stuff and am considering buying the MF101 and/or MF105 after watching the videos and reading reviews. The 102 and 107 sound way bit too harsh for my taste. IMy intention is to use this as a table top device together with the elektron machine drum, micro korg, kaoss pad and (once i get it) the Octa track- for live performance, tweaking e.t.c

What is the difference between the 101 and 105- I know once is a LPF and the other a Multi resonance F, but can i get the MF101 sound from the 105? Should I buy both- would they complement each other?

How dramatic would the sounds alter on the MF101 and 105 if connected to the CP251- which I'm also considering adding at some stage

thanks for any responses and pardon my ignorance- i'm more of a computer musician and an ableton certified trainer

[EMwhite]

You had me at Korg. As soon as you said you have an elektron, I thought rhythm and the 105M is an ideal companion to the other Korg devices that will help you to create an infinite palette of rhythms especially if you get into the pattern editor. It also clocks midi and is controlable via mapped Midi CC's so you can, in theory use the Kaoss to tweak the 105's envelope. (I've done this with a nanoPad's touchpad).

The 101 is a one trick pony which is to say that it's best geared for analog instruments, especially guitar or bass (via envelope follower) not that you can't do alot more with it, especially if you seek resonance oscillation, but with the XL and some of your other gear, you can already take care of this effect. For sure, the Virtual synths emulation of this effect is nothing like what the 101 can produce and eventually I do believe you'll want both but bang for the buck and better integration into what seems like digital or virtual analog gear, my vote is for the 105M. (for reference, this was my first Fooger as well, followed by a FreqBox followed by the Lowpass 101). btw: I'm not an analog snob, I've got a Radias and love it.

Ah, as for the 251, it's better suited for the more analog'ish pedals like the ring mod and Lowpass filter due to the fact that it's purely a control voltage based device. If I were in your shoes, I would get a MultiPedal (MP-201) before I would get a CP-251. In fact, I did just this. Don't get me wrong, the CP-251 is a great device but there is no midi integration or clock sync'ing whatsoever so you'll be a bit disconnected from Ableton. The 201 on the other hand marries Midi and Control Voltage and with it, you can pulse or send envelopes to a pure CV device based on sync'ed Midi not to mention do 10 other very useful things.

If you had a bunch of analog synth gear, the 251 would be more useful but a good 3/4's of it is geared towards mults, mixing, lag processors, etc and to tell you the truth, with the exception of the lag, most of the other functions are taken care of through the Voyager's VX-351.

Just my opinion.

[thecosmicorder]

Thanks very much for the reply. Yes i have added the CP to my list. I am getting a good deal from Nova for the 251. One last question- will the cp with its cv out do e erything that the 251 can? I havent seen any musical application of the 251.

I agree in tegrating the 251 to a midi based system could be an issue. I might at some stage get the slim which might help extract better juice from the 251.

Thanks again

[thecosmicorder]

Cp- i meant mp , the multi pedal

[EricK]

The problem with the MoogerFoogers is that they suffer from a true lack of Video Demos to show where they really shine. There are simply no decent freqbox demos out there. People, including places like gearwire, want to demonstrate the fact that Moog pedals are designed to go way past "10" so to speak, to give you outerspace when most people settle for biosphere. The foogers are such that they give you your usable musical range and everything above and below that, far past the point where the timid begin to run away.

The Freqbox and Ringmod are two examples of this. They are pedals that seem to elicit such phrases as "That is a good sound...if thats the sound you are after".


I made a few youtube videos demonstrating the Freqbox, the RIngmod for their more subtle features. This is the area I think that some Foogers really shine.

I use the Freqbox mostly as an Oscillator source either as an addendum to my synths or as a partial independant synth in conjunction with the cp251.

I recently made a video where I created a bassline and a rhythm with JUST the mf101.


The MF 105M is a great pedal, but I think it has some noise issues. If and when they get that fixed I'll complete my collection of Foogers but until then Id have to reccomend the regular 105m or the bass version if you can find one (they are out there).


You are welcome to check out my videos on my youtube channel
youtube.com/rhythmicons.

Rhodes and RIngmod
Freqbox and Bassballs hybrid analog synth
Freqbox with Rhodes and Bass Guitar
Beats and a Bassline
Taurus Pedals and Mid Murf

THe RIngmod is hands down one of the most versatile foogers, and I think it is the one that will really make your rig sound like a 70's modular synth, when used corectly (riding the mix knob during a solo, bringing up the mix like a guitarist would use amp feedback.) I don't know if any of this is peaking your interest due to your gear list. There has been discussion lately of using audio as a CV from ableton.

I hope some of this helps you make your decision. pm me if you have any specific details.

Eric

[Sir Nose]

Just a note. I have had zero noise issues with my midi murf. I use it almost every day.

I would recommend it over the traditional Murfs by a long shot. You get both the mid and bass filter bands, midi functionality and sync, and the ability to create your own patterns.

[jeepo]

I don't have any noise problems with my midi murf either.

[EMwhite]

No Noise here on 105M either. Maybe Eric is referring to this: http://www.moogmusic.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8884

[thecosmicorder]

Ordered 101, 105m, cp251, mp 201

Merry christmas to all

[Sir Nose]

That's gonna be fun

[thecosmicorder]

I really hope so, coming from the digital side of things I had a real issue with the Evolver desktop- in terms of integrating it to my set up. Its fun , tweaking knobs , but trying to program melodies and making it a part of my set up was a real challenge.

[Headphones]

One thing to keep in mind about the MF-102 & MF-107, is now you're going to have the MF-101 & MF-105M to tame the harsh sounds they produce. If you're still not convinced, then at least consider the MF-103 & MF-104 for your effects setup to the gear you listed. By patching the MP-201, CP-251, MF-101 & MF-105 is now you have control over the filter sweeps, and you can discover interesting ways to filter them with the control the MP-201 will be at your foot. But you're off to a good start for just controlling the filter side of things. If you ever do want a SP or LP, or Voyager, you'll want the MF-102/107. Trust us. Have fun.

[thecosmicorder]

thanks guys.

got my stuff and have been playin with it today, its great and fun. Yes the SP is on my list, next, probably voyager after that....

one question i have (after trying CV fun for the first time):

1. is there a way to control tempo/bpm on CV. I hooked up the MF101 and 251 together and was able to conjure some nice sounds over which i tried to layer a beat . the problem i have is to get the CV tones to match the bpm. is there a way to do this? besides of course fiddling with the lfo rate?

2. the MF105 does not react to the CP , or I was not able to get it to? Any tips here


thanks and merry christmas to all

[EMwhite]

Sort of, not really. Let me explain.

If, when you say BPM, you are talking about as generated by Ableton or Logic, or a Drum machine w/Midi; you can certain sync the 105M to it. Important that you pay very very very special attention to the RATE knob as it's position when in Midi mode dictates whether it will use a 1/8th clock divider or a WH+WH, etc. Have a look at the last msg here: http://www.moogmusic.com/forum/viewtopi ... 159#p67159

(may go without saying but when there is no Midi clock present, the RATE knob controls rate linearly as if it were an Analog LFO).

Unfortunately, the MurF doesn't have an Analog clock/pulse OUTput so there is no Midi-CV conversion except internally. And since the CP-251 is Analog only, you'll need a true Midi-CV converter such as they type built into the MP-201 (Moog Multipedal).

Even some of the commercially available Midi-CV product WILL convert note on/off Midi info (to voltage scale and Gate signals) and will even map a CC control (or aftertouch/velocity) to a different CV channel, but not all will convert a MIdi clock into a LFO type of saw or pulse signal that can be used to sync Sample & Hold (for instance) in the CP-251.

As far as the CP-251 is concerned, it is the ONLY clock and happy to drive other pieces of equipment. But [again] with the MultiPedal, you can take a channel output that is sync'ed to Midi Clock, send it into the CP251's Gate input, leverage the CP's built in noise and have a sync'ed S+H but then again, the MP can do this all on it's own.

The CP is a strange beast. In the world of modular Analog, it's king, combining several functions onto one small box. But once you step into the world of external digital sequencers and Midi, it becomes a fish out of water.

But one more thing... You can certainly take the pulse out of the CP-251 and drive the Midi Murf (or any MurF) via the Tap/Step input using a traditional insert cable. The difference between the Tap and Step function is dictated by which lead on the TRS plug is being leveraged. a typical sustain pedal (mono TS cable) will set the Tap tempo after three 'clicks' are tapped in (note that the RATE light flashes Green in this mode). In order to do the Step mode which is also useful in driving from CV LFO (CP-251), you'll need the tRS portion of the signal, aka Ring. Three ways to do this:

a) Proper Insert cable using Ring
b) Place a conventional mono TS cable about 1/2 in (you'll see the light change from Red to Green); I'm not a fan of this one
c) Buy the Moog Step adapter which is essentially a female to male converter jack that changes Tip to Ring; I'm not in love with this one either because of the fact that it requires an extra 2" of realestate above your Fooger; if on the floor no problem, but in a rack you won't always have this space.
d) Wire your own adapter/cable by buying a few parts at Mouser/Digikey/Radio Shack, etc.

Final note is that once you work out the wiring, you can also sync using the "Step" mode with a pulse'ey signal from a drum box set on 4/4 such as a kick or snare drum. But keep the 'volume' low and increase slowly until the MurF starts stepping. Don't blast the signal in as it could cause harm if too much gain is present.

Hope this helps.


So you're back to tweaking the

[jeepo]

I'm pretty sure that the mp 201 will sync an lfo to midi clock