Ok....I'm totally not trying to be a dink here but I was just wondering why this forum seems to only get action when trivial, pointless topics come up? People can do what they want (obviously) but I am saddened to see this useful resource going to the way side for the point of killing time online. There have been numerous posts concerning tech questions, new comers, patches....all kinds of actually interesting and pending issues and they've gotten little to no responses. As soon as
the French Fake and Ham Sandwiches are mentioned, everyone comes out of the woodwork. I asked a simple question about a liberation....nada (except MC...thanx), THM asked about foot controllers, some guy just asked about his mini's output...nada. Is this an ignorant crowd? Find it hard to believe. Are you fellas just too into your own hype to help out others? Maybe. Anyodd...I just thought a little more effort on topics that are gonna get more musicians playing more moog would be great. Have your fun but if you know something valuable please share.
Forum Direction
this seems to be the trend on a lot of forums these days. whether is be on a Vox, Fender, Apple or Corvette forum I visit. Seems the tech. or tech like questions get quickly overshadowed by O/T posts. I have been having my own fun trracking down an intermittent problem on my Source - one of those 2 month searches to find out it was a very stupid little thing that actually took 3 seconds to fix.
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prairedust
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I agree whole-heartedly, however several of my tech questions have been answer, as well as general questions about moog voyager, and moogerfoogers. I think Lashed had it right about the tech aspect of moog product questions. I'm an dummy when it comes to the electronical dynamics of modular sythesis, but this forem has been insightful to the inner-workings of the Voyager. Thx to all who submit thought provoking, informative suggestions and tips. We must remember that this forum, like all dmeocracys needs good and bad elements to be a viable and equal force. cheers
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goldphinga
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Exactly. The forums would be very dull without a bit of comedy now and again. We are after all talking about synths and sound and music which above all else should be fun. I am very serious about sound and playing but i love a bit of off the wall humour now and again and will take the mick out of anyone getting too serious. Those train pictures were a great antidote to some of the recent serious posts. Problem is people take stuff too personally sometimes and its very hard to convey your vibe accurately via these groups;its very easy to get the wrong impression about someone.
Thats my 2 pennys!
Thats my 2 pennys!
Moog Gear: Voyager AE,LP Stage 2+CV outs (Blue LED's/Wheels, MF104SD, MF101 Filter, MF103 Phaser, Source, Memorymoog+, Minitaur.
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The Unknown
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You've hit the nail squarely on the head. Forums are essentially about conversation, and part of the art of conversation is digression. If this means humour now and again, is that really a bad thing? My advice to anybody who goes to a particular thread and finds it irritating is, rather than slagging it off, simply leave it and don't return to it - you are treating it with the contempt you feel it deserves that way.
You are also right when you say some people take things too seriously. Myself and another poster were taken to task for discussing a band not so long back, by a particular individual whose attitude was, that if a thread starts out discussing one thing, then it should not progress into other areas. See my earlier point on conversation for my opinion on that one!
You are also right when you say some people take things too seriously. Myself and another poster were taken to task for discussing a band not so long back, by a particular individual whose attitude was, that if a thread starts out discussing one thing, then it should not progress into other areas. See my earlier point on conversation for my opinion on that one!
It is better to be loved or hated than to be regarded with indifference.
I might look a fool, I might act the fool, but take me for a fool and I'll make a fool of you.
If the past is ill, make the future better.
I might look a fool, I might act the fool, but take me for a fool and I'll make a fool of you.
If the past is ill, make the future better.
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Kevin Lightner
- Posts: 1587
- Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 5:20 pm
- Location: Wrightwood
My own take is that OT topics and posts diminsh traffic and usefulness to forums like this.
Not everyone is on broadband, nor has the time to flip through pages of people asking questions about SCI, Korg, Roland and other products. It's certainly not the place to discuss/whine why one can't make good music, when they have fantastic gear and never took the time to actually learn music theory or how to play.
I have no sympathy, nor advice, for someone in a supermarket who can't decide what to eat and never took the time to learn to cook.
I chime in on almost any thread that I feel I can be an aid to.
Most of my time is otherwise spent being a vintage synth restorer.
I'm approaching my 400th minimoog service or restoration job and have worked on an easy 200 other other moog of all commercial models.
So, consider that not only do my contributions possibly decrease the work I might see if I otherwise didn't offer such suggestions, the time I spend helping on these issues, takes time from paying work. I spend almost 1/4 of my week in technically oriented emails providing info and advice as well.
Very simply, I often see bad advice being thrown out from someone that is doing nothing more than guessing usually and it causes more harm than good.
With this said, I don't answer threads where the poster appears to be so naive, they are asking how to mod or repair their synth, when they have no experience in electronics. No forum posts will teach such such a person all the knowledge and techniques to pull off a good, clean job, not to mention their probable lack of tools. A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing sometimes.
I also tend not to get involved in threads revolving around subjective opinions about music, synths and such. There's no use trying to make a person change their tastes and debating how a blond is better than a brunette (or vice versa) is a often a sheer waste of time.
So, this board is a product of who the posters are and how agressive the moderators are to remove OT posts. We're guests in their house, but if they allow anyone to visit, that's their problem what the final outcome is.
Not everyone is on broadband, nor has the time to flip through pages of people asking questions about SCI, Korg, Roland and other products. It's certainly not the place to discuss/whine why one can't make good music, when they have fantastic gear and never took the time to actually learn music theory or how to play.
I have no sympathy, nor advice, for someone in a supermarket who can't decide what to eat and never took the time to learn to cook.
I chime in on almost any thread that I feel I can be an aid to.
Most of my time is otherwise spent being a vintage synth restorer.
I'm approaching my 400th minimoog service or restoration job and have worked on an easy 200 other other moog of all commercial models.
So, consider that not only do my contributions possibly decrease the work I might see if I otherwise didn't offer such suggestions, the time I spend helping on these issues, takes time from paying work. I spend almost 1/4 of my week in technically oriented emails providing info and advice as well.
Very simply, I often see bad advice being thrown out from someone that is doing nothing more than guessing usually and it causes more harm than good.
With this said, I don't answer threads where the poster appears to be so naive, they are asking how to mod or repair their synth, when they have no experience in electronics. No forum posts will teach such such a person all the knowledge and techniques to pull off a good, clean job, not to mention their probable lack of tools. A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing sometimes.
I also tend not to get involved in threads revolving around subjective opinions about music, synths and such. There's no use trying to make a person change their tastes and debating how a blond is better than a brunette (or vice versa) is a often a sheer waste of time.
So, this board is a product of who the posters are and how agressive the moderators are to remove OT posts. We're guests in their house, but if they allow anyone to visit, that's their problem what the final outcome is.
Kevin is most likely talking about me when he refers to the discuss/whine of why one can't make good music. That's fine. There's plenty of musicians who can't read a bit of music (or do other things relating to music theory), have never wanted to and never will that are making music just fine.
By the way, I was not whining, just getting frustrated and looking for advice is all. And through past dealings with some of the folk here, I figured I'd probably get some tips (and I did). Hell, I even valued Kevin's response. I am now spending time with a music theory book!
I am a 30 year old guy with some money to play with (hence my toy collection). I work lots. I am moving 1700 miles across the country in two months. I just recently got engaged. So you see, my time for music is little. I am just a hobbyist wanting to enjoy myself is all. It'd be nice to not be patronized by someone who chose to build a career out of making music, repairing synths, or whatever.
Off-topic posts have been a part of forums since, well, since forums were created. It is quite simple. If a post is clearly marked with something along the lines 'off topic' then you can assume that the poster is posting something... off topic! Optionally, if you are annoyed with off-topic posts, you can easily avoid them. I find it so funny that people bitch, having clicked a thread that was labeled off-topic. I will admit that it is slightly annoying when an off-topic post has not been marked as such. Or, when someone posts an unforgiving amount of off-topic posts out of sheer boredom.
Next. Anyone (including all-knowing synth repair gods), can be guilty of 'misleading' a forum. Some perfectly nice folk might read his response as a little bitter or insulting and choose to find another forum. Then again someone may be in total agreement with him. Ah yes, that is the beauty of it all, for sure. To me, it's a cool forum. I've met some extremely nice folks here and learned some helpful tips. I spend most of my time here just reading through previous posts. There's lots of great info in here, but it can only take you so far.
Ah well. Same as any other forum, you know? Someone does not like the way things are going and chooses to speak up in hopes that they will start some sort of revolution or something. It rarely works. There's always going to be a mix of folks. Arrogant, condescending, pretentious, kind, bitter, helpful, sympathetic, clever, you name it. Don't think for a minute that it will ever change because it's not going to. If this annoys you, start your own forum where you can moderate it strictly for your own purposes.
By the way, I was not whining, just getting frustrated and looking for advice is all. And through past dealings with some of the folk here, I figured I'd probably get some tips (and I did). Hell, I even valued Kevin's response. I am now spending time with a music theory book!
I am a 30 year old guy with some money to play with (hence my toy collection). I work lots. I am moving 1700 miles across the country in two months. I just recently got engaged. So you see, my time for music is little. I am just a hobbyist wanting to enjoy myself is all. It'd be nice to not be patronized by someone who chose to build a career out of making music, repairing synths, or whatever.
Off-topic posts have been a part of forums since, well, since forums were created. It is quite simple. If a post is clearly marked with something along the lines 'off topic' then you can assume that the poster is posting something... off topic! Optionally, if you are annoyed with off-topic posts, you can easily avoid them. I find it so funny that people bitch, having clicked a thread that was labeled off-topic. I will admit that it is slightly annoying when an off-topic post has not been marked as such. Or, when someone posts an unforgiving amount of off-topic posts out of sheer boredom.
Next. Anyone (including all-knowing synth repair gods), can be guilty of 'misleading' a forum. Some perfectly nice folk might read his response as a little bitter or insulting and choose to find another forum. Then again someone may be in total agreement with him. Ah yes, that is the beauty of it all, for sure. To me, it's a cool forum. I've met some extremely nice folks here and learned some helpful tips. I spend most of my time here just reading through previous posts. There's lots of great info in here, but it can only take you so far.
Ah well. Same as any other forum, you know? Someone does not like the way things are going and chooses to speak up in hopes that they will start some sort of revolution or something. It rarely works. There's always going to be a mix of folks. Arrogant, condescending, pretentious, kind, bitter, helpful, sympathetic, clever, you name it. Don't think for a minute that it will ever change because it's not going to. If this annoys you, start your own forum where you can moderate it strictly for your own purposes.
Forum Index Fixerup section!
I think that perhaps a forum should be set up in the index exclusively for hardware/software and patch issues.
It's just a thought!!
theglyph
It's just a thought!!
theglyph
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Boeing 737-400
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- Location: Oxford, UK
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Kevin Lightner
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- Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 5:20 pm
- Location: Wrightwood
Ticker, my post was most certainly *not* about you.
I've never heard of you.
Possibly you feel guilty of the issues I raised or possibly you're paranoid. I can't say, because I don't know you. Got it?
Yes, offtopic posts have been around since forums were invented.
So has typhoid. It still doesn't make it good.
There's a reason topics are named what they are and again, not everyone is on broadband. While you might "simply skip" offtopic posts, others may take a while to even download their titles.
With that said, it seems that *some* people (no, not you..heh), try to decide the rules of a board, their topics, how a reader should surf or other accomodations, simply because they're selfish, lazy or don't know where else to go when they want to talk. It still doesn't make it right. This is a Moog forum. It's about Moog synths, go figure.
Coming here and discussing why one can't music with brand Z's synth has nothing to do with Moog. It might explain why they can't make music though. Maybe they're that ill-equipped.
Btw, many fantastic musicians don't read or write music.
Count Basie didn't for more than half of his career.
Most blind musicians obviously too.
Learning what makes music pleasing has nothing to do with notes on paper. It's about perception and training. Sort of like perceiving off topic posts and training yourself not to make them. Make a joyful noise.... whoever you are.
I've never heard of you.
Possibly you feel guilty of the issues I raised or possibly you're paranoid. I can't say, because I don't know you. Got it?
Yes, offtopic posts have been around since forums were invented.
So has typhoid. It still doesn't make it good.
There's a reason topics are named what they are and again, not everyone is on broadband. While you might "simply skip" offtopic posts, others may take a while to even download their titles.
With that said, it seems that *some* people (no, not you..heh), try to decide the rules of a board, their topics, how a reader should surf or other accomodations, simply because they're selfish, lazy or don't know where else to go when they want to talk. It still doesn't make it right. This is a Moog forum. It's about Moog synths, go figure.
Coming here and discussing why one can't music with brand Z's synth has nothing to do with Moog. It might explain why they can't make music though. Maybe they're that ill-equipped.
Btw, many fantastic musicians don't read or write music.
Count Basie didn't for more than half of his career.
Most blind musicians obviously too.
Learning what makes music pleasing has nothing to do with notes on paper. It's about perception and training. Sort of like perceiving off topic posts and training yourself not to make them. Make a joyful noise.... whoever you are.
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HowIMadeMyMillions
- Posts: 107
- Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 4:21 pm
- Location: Canada
Oh has the worst happened? Have I created a bad off topic off topic thread? Seriously though I think this thread in a way shows a lot of what I was trying to avoid with this thread....ahhhh...irony. I'm logical enough not to think it'll change (that is the pointless banter of forum horn balls), too busy to put respond to any of it and too laid back to get upset by the enevitable. The point of this thread was to simply ask those who possess the knowledge to share it. If ya don't then it doesn't apply to you. Give some props to Mr. Lightner and the others who provide some serious insight and follow their lead. For no other reason then to be nice and help others. Forums can be ugly or beautifully symbiotic....I'd rather see the later. Let's get back to moogs.
I think there is going to be a limited amount of technical knowledge that can be shared on any kind of end user Forum. Kevin Lightner hit the nail on the head, most of us are clueless as to the design and inter workings of a synth. I know that I'm a better KB player than my service tech (he's not a KB player), but I can only tell him what my synth's doing (wrong) not how to repair it. Once he services it for me, he can tell me what was wrong with it. Two different worlds. Most of us here only own a few synthesizers so we can't base anything we say about a synth we've never owned other than opinion based on what we read or heard somewhere else.
I think we can share end user things with younger players based on experiences those of us that are "gray toppers" that have been around awhile. We can talk about certain manufacturer's track record on their gear, their level of tech support we've experienced over a period of years, links for information someone is looking for, etc. But we should leave the real technical issues to people that are qualified to do so, like Kevin.
Cheers,
Mike T.
I think we can share end user things with younger players based on experiences those of us that are "gray toppers" that have been around awhile. We can talk about certain manufacturer's track record on their gear, their level of tech support we've experienced over a period of years, links for information someone is looking for, etc. But we should leave the real technical issues to people that are qualified to do so, like Kevin.
Cheers,
Mike T.
