First gig with Phatty....or so I thought...Major Bug!!!

[Amos]

What do the power sockets in your country look like?

Most euro/Schuko outlets do not require a third "pin" for earth/ground connection... this connection is made by some contacts on the walls of the socket. So, to get a good earth connection you need a plug with some flat metal strips on the side of the plug, like in this picture...



Does this look like a plug that would work in your country? This is what all the outlets in Germany were like. I am surprised to hear that Thomann would not ship with an appropriate power cord. Moog ships all Little Phatty to the EU with an appropriate Schuko plug, which has tabs for grounding.

If your outlet looks like this:



The metal spring contacts at top and bottom are the ground connection. No need for an extra pin on the plug.

Do your outlets look like the above?

---

In any case, let's think about what could be the trouble and what you can do. First, if the power plug you have does not have the ground contacts (flat metal strips on the outside of the plug) then Thomann has replaced the power cord supplied by Moog with an inferior one... which seems unlikely.

Second, if you have the power plugged into a "bad" outlet, make sure it's really the outlet and not a problem with some other connection. Disconnect any/all audio cables from the LP but leave the power plugged in. Does the problem persist, or does it go away? I have encountered similar situations where the problem was actually a ground loop or voltage problem being caused by an effects pedal or mixer that was connected to the Little Phatty's audio output. This is important to test.

Once we are certain whether the problem is specific to the power plug or if it is to do with the audio connections, we can trouble-shoot further from there.

If it's a power problem, an uninterruptable power supply (UPS) or a power conditioner or line voltage regulator (like this?) might help.

You may wish to return this LP to Thomann if you can... I suspect you will get much better support in Denmark if you purchase from our official Danish distributor, High End Tentacles. Besides which, Ole is a super-nice, super-cool guy and could use your support.

Thanks,

Amos

[Biigm]

Thanks for the answer Amos.

The power cable is indeed a shucko like the one in the picture. The same kind I have for all my amps monitors and so on.

Funny thing is that normal sockets in denmark have either 2 or three holes, but nowhere the shucko plug can connect to ground.

But what I can deduct from your answer is that it is indeed very important to have proper grounding. This is , I'm afraid not easily done. It's not practical to start yelling at people during a 30 mins changeover at a festival because the the power is ungrounded somewhere along the line.

If I add to this the possibility that combinations of my amp, pedalboard, di box and so on might make trouble at random times, I'm afraid that it seems to me that the Phatty is just to sensitive for stable live use, at least in my part of the world.

Is the voyager as sensitive as the Phatty? I haven't heard any complaints from my pal who has one.

I would very much have liked to support your official dealer in Denmark. But I'm afraid that 60-70% on top of the thomann price is just out of my pricerange right now.

I'm leaning towards a return of the Phatty and finding something else for my synthbass needs. To Bad because I have allready come to love the sound and simplicity of it.
What should i get instead?


Thx for your help though. You are very helpfull.

[Amos]

Perhaps it's not too late with the Phatty... indeed people are using them all over the world with no troubles.
In general it's safe to say the Voyager is definitely less sensitive to AC ground issues.
But, I think it's possible that most LP are less sensitive to AC ground issues that this one is.
Best thing would be to try a different one before you commit to return yours.

How possible might this be?

mvh,

Amos

[kiddell2]

Like i wrote in my previous mail....it is not your Phatty...it is your power supply/power outlet which is creating a issue.

Having decent grounding in your home/studio/live situation is one of the most important parts of your setup.

So you can send your Phatty back....but that will not solve your problem and any other synth/equipment will have grounding issues with certain power outlets which are not decent grounded.

i have had my LP 2 for 8 weeks, but had enough of the problems, cant rely on it to work properly at live gigs, so its had to go, and now buying a roland, as i`ve had the same one for 20 years playing live, and not one single problem GOODBYE MOOG

[Prime NL]

i have had my LP 2 for 8 weeks, but had enough of the problems, cant rely on it to work properly at live gigs, so its had to go, and now buying a roland, as i`ve had the same one for 20 years playing live, and not one single problem GOODBYE MOOG

Errr...yeah.....bye...

[CTRLSHFT]

i have had my LP 2 for 8 weeks, but had enough of the problems, cant rely on it to work properly at live gigs, so its had to go, and now buying a roland, as i`ve had the same one for 20 years playing live, and not one single problem GOODBYE MOOG

Errr...yeah.....bye...

[guillaume76]

Hi,

I'm from France and I have exactly the same problem! In my home studio it works but sometimes on stage the parameters change by themselves.

As I play both bass an LP, I use a line selector. I have tried many things to fix the problem but no solution for the moment! DI, earth lift, changing the Schuko, using a Schuko with no earth... the only way to fix the issue is to find another power source.

As someone said it's not very professional and when you go on stage for a big festival you cannot said : "hey the power you give me is not clean..." ...50 other musicians were on stage before you and didn't have the problem

[pierrotlefou]

Hi,

Did anyone of the people who experience(d) this problem manage to solve it?
I am getting extremely frustrated by this issue! Currently, I simply cannot use the Little Phatty outside my home. (I live in the Netherlands.)

Since all my other equipment always worked perfectly fine in similar conditions, I cannot help blaming the Little Phatty for this... I am afraid that solving this issue will be impossible or that it will take a lot of time / money...

[ollie633]

I have also experienced this problem every time I perform live,

I use the standard UK Cable with the earth prong on it, and I've played in about 8 different venue's, it still goes mad, With the knobs moving automatically and even getting stuck notes (No Midi) and the tuning dropping whenever it decides to.

The only place were my Little Phatty does work is at home in my studio and there it works like a treat with no problems at all. Its just an unreliable synth for live usage and performances. For live situations now I have to use the VST version to achieve the sounds. Which is a real shame because its a great synth when it Works perfectly.

I also have all the latest available updates installed as well might just mention.

[pierrotlefou]

I am sorry to hear that you cannot use the Little Phatty live, and have to use VSTs instead!

In another topic I have seen several solutions that may or may not work..., including:
-Don't use the 'pass thru' setting for the knobs (I will try this as soon as I can)
-Use shielded instrument cables
-Use a passive DI box. (For me, an active DI box with ground lift did not work.)
-Use other devices, like power conditioners. Seems expensive and doesn't work in most cases...

My current solution is using a Dave Smith Mopho Keyboard, which is largely analog as well and sounds good.

[ollie633]

I am sorry to hear that you cannot use the Little Phatty live, and have to use VSTs instead!

In another topic I have seen several solutions that may or may not work..., including:
-Don't use the 'pass thru' setting for the knobs (I will try this as soon as I can)
-Use shielded instrument cables
-Use a passive DI box. (For me, an active DI box with ground lift did not work.)
-Use other devices, like power conditioners. Seems expensive and doesn't work in most cases...

My current solution is using a Dave Smith Mopho Keyboard, which is largely analog as well and sounds good.

I have also seen and tried the "Pass Thru" setting and yet still the phatty has the issue unfortunately .
the same situation here with the DI box doesn't solve anything for me,

Yes I have also been thinking about the Mopho as well! Yet all my other synthe's work perfectly live including my 30 odd year old Pro one and Roland SH2. The Little Phatty is the only one that has let me down unfortunately...

[pierrotlefou]

hi,

Did you use a passive DI box? I read somewhere that this may make a difference. I'd also like to try the shielded cable option. If I remember correctly, the problem also occurs if I just plug an audio cable into the Phatty and then hold the audio cable at the other end. Don't know what that signifies though

I really hope it's possible to solve this...
If not, the Mopho is a great little synth as an alternative. The bass sounds are probably not as 'deep', and the smaller size gives a less clean knob layout, but it's really wonderful-sounding, has a lot of flexibility, a good form factor and weight, and a superior keyboard compared to the Moog.

[pierrotlefou]

Something like this would also be an option, but the experiment would cost about 50 euros...:
http://artproaudio.com/artcessories/aud ... oduct/dti/

[ollie633]

Yeah I only use passive, I have never tried an Active Box though, If that would make a difference to the way the Phatty Acts I have no idea, so I need to try that, but yeah I only use the Radial D2 Passive box, which is a fantastic DI box but it doesn't solve the problem ... I have yet to try an Active one.

[pierrotlefou]

Hmm, next to shielded cables, a passive DI box was more or less my last resort. Active DI box with ground lift didn't work for me...

Next to the question on how to solve this, how can a product by a well-established company like Moog exhibit this kind of behavior for so many users?