If you already have ableton, I HIGHLY suggest even bypassing the sampler, and getting a m-audio Trigger Finger, coupled with FXpansions GURU VST. I switched out all my sampling hardware for that setup... has way more functionality, quick, easy to use, simple GUI. There are demo videos on FXpansions site that walk you through it, check it out to see if it peaks ur interest.
The m-audio Trigger Finger has better pads imo than the MPC1000. I had a MPC1000 and the pads were stiff and ridged.. frustrating sometimes to tap out beats. The Trigger Finger is soft and really sensitive... you can use it with any software u want.
New LPII user
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anoteoftruth
- Posts: 441
- Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:34 am
- Location: Edmonton, AB
- Contact:
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anoteoftruth
- Posts: 441
- Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:34 am
- Location: Edmonton, AB
- Contact:
the first bright eyes song you linked = real drums with effects, could be looped, but the sound source is a real drum set. You could recreate this with a sampler sampling acoustic drum sounds and then processing w effects etc.
the second CocoRosie song you linked = lo fi drum samples. Pretty commonly found samples of drums sampled at a lo fi rate and filtered.
You could do both easily with a sampler/software that I mentioned.
But it's be impossible to get the same sound with a drum machine. You could get something "close" to the CocoRosie song w a drum machine, after some effects processing maybe.. but it'd be a lot easier on a sampler/software
the second CocoRosie song you linked = lo fi drum samples. Pretty commonly found samples of drums sampled at a lo fi rate and filtered.
You could do both easily with a sampler/software that I mentioned.
But it's be impossible to get the same sound with a drum machine. You could get something "close" to the CocoRosie song w a drum machine, after some effects processing maybe.. but it'd be a lot easier on a sampler/software
Moog Voyager RME / Moog LP SE 2 / Nord Rack 1 / Microkorg / Korg ER-1 / Triggerfinger / Rocktron Banshee talk box / Ableton live / Guru / Lots of non-electric musical instruments.
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soundxplorer
- Posts: 237
- Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 8:07 pm
I'll agree with that. The main attraction of an MPC would be the sequencer. If you don't need that, just get a MIDI controller. I have the Korg padKontrol and I think the pads on it feel better than MPC pads too. Never tried the M-Audio one.anoteoftruth wrote:The m-audio Trigger Finger has better pads imo than the MPC1000. I had a MPC1000 and the pads were stiff and ridged
Gear: Moog LP, Gibson LP, lots of FX
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echodeluxe
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:54 am
WOAH!! THAT'S MORE LIKE IT!! 
I much, much, much prefer that over any drum machine to be honest. I just need to get these sounds out of my head, I'm not an electronic musician by any stretch of the imagination even though I'd LOVE to own a collection like Moby's drum machines. I'll look at both M-Audio and Korg models to see what they offer. I thought most drum machines now days could do this (silly me) and samplers being samplers, I think I still prefer the idea of having something totally software driven as everything will be done during production anyway.
I just ordered some mahogany sides from Synthwood. Their customer handling is second to none and their communication is top notch! I wish we had that kind of customer service down here. I can't wait till they're done and installed and then I might even give her a name
So on my shopping list now is...
- Trigger finger/Padkontrol
- Some kind of speakers (How can I set it up so that my LAPTOP, LPII and TV can use these speakers? All the gears in my room so yeah... there isn't enough space to run separate stuff for everything as much as I'd love to run the LPII through a bass amp, laptop through monitors and TV through some cheap logitechs).
And I'm pretty much set. I can even start making demos and stuff.
Having a bigger read... the Padkontrol DOES seem pretty cool. Maybe I should start thinking about buying a mixer + cheap monitors and run the TV, LPII and laptop all through that??? I get paid my "KPI" next week and still living at home so I want to buy everything before I'm tied to commitments like rent, bills... ya know, the real world!
I've had the past ten days off and I've got to know my LPII quite well. My favourite setting is the Trippy and the 00 setting and moving from there. I'm sticking to 5 presets from different 'ranges of sound' and manually adjusting them
Who said new gear doesn't inspire one to play more?!?!
I much, much, much prefer that over any drum machine to be honest. I just need to get these sounds out of my head, I'm not an electronic musician by any stretch of the imagination even though I'd LOVE to own a collection like Moby's drum machines. I'll look at both M-Audio and Korg models to see what they offer. I thought most drum machines now days could do this (silly me) and samplers being samplers, I think I still prefer the idea of having something totally software driven as everything will be done during production anyway.
I just ordered some mahogany sides from Synthwood. Their customer handling is second to none and their communication is top notch! I wish we had that kind of customer service down here. I can't wait till they're done and installed and then I might even give her a name
So on my shopping list now is...
- Trigger finger/Padkontrol
- Some kind of speakers (How can I set it up so that my LAPTOP, LPII and TV can use these speakers? All the gears in my room so yeah... there isn't enough space to run separate stuff for everything as much as I'd love to run the LPII through a bass amp, laptop through monitors and TV through some cheap logitechs).
And I'm pretty much set. I can even start making demos and stuff.
Having a bigger read... the Padkontrol DOES seem pretty cool. Maybe I should start thinking about buying a mixer + cheap monitors and run the TV, LPII and laptop all through that??? I get paid my "KPI" next week and still living at home so I want to buy everything before I'm tied to commitments like rent, bills... ya know, the real world!
I've had the past ten days off and I've got to know my LPII quite well. My favourite setting is the Trippy and the 00 setting and moving from there. I'm sticking to 5 presets from different 'ranges of sound' and manually adjusting them
Who said new gear doesn't inspire one to play more?!?!
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anoteoftruth
- Posts: 441
- Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:34 am
- Location: Edmonton, AB
- Contact:
It totally inspires! Especially a Moog.. It's funny.. tonight I was just at a friends house, checking out his new Buchla 200 e series modular synth... sure he paid over 12000$ for it, and it of course is a very highly rated modular synth.. I understand its a huge move for someone to buy, but it didn't peak my interest as much as his Moog Voyager RME next to it... which he's selling to me. I could'nt keep my eyes/hands off the thing! There's something about a Moog, sound wise, and interface wise, that just draws people in and traps them there in wonderment.
Definately check out both the Trigger Finger and Kontrolpad... see which one feels better to you.. they have basically the same function, whichever one feels better for you is a better fit.
And yes, although I would'nt suggest software for everything (especially software synths... they make me feel sick most times haha) I have to admit, software samplers definately have a huge advantage nowadays... with a hardware sampler like a Akai MPC, the only real benefit your gonna have is that its a peice of hardware u can touch and carry with you.. your still gonnahave it run through a computer, and have to record all the audio through a computer etc... might as well get a peice of software that does the same thing even better, and runs straight inside Ableton or something.
And you mentioned Moby's drum machine collection... it is impressive for sure.. but just be clear, he does'nt actually use them all on his songs... the majority of them don't get used.. he is a collector. When he does use them, he samples them to a sampler/software in a DAW and uses it that way on his songs.. but he does'nt actually use them directly (he has stated this in past interviews.) Plus just by listening to his music you can tell it is sampled drums.. drum machines generally can't create those kind of sounds. (in of themselves, drum machines are extremely limited, and mostly go for high prices because of vintage status. Like the tr-909 and 808 etc.. you hardly ever hear music nowadays that uses them, but they are analog and vintage and right now there is a surge in this market, so they go for a hefty price)
You mentioned your looking for speakers/monitors... check out the KRK lines! KRK monitors are great! and affordable! (im making a random estimate and gonna say probably half the people here use KRK's as is suggested in all the photo threads)
Definately check out both the Trigger Finger and Kontrolpad... see which one feels better to you.. they have basically the same function, whichever one feels better for you is a better fit.
And yes, although I would'nt suggest software for everything (especially software synths... they make me feel sick most times haha) I have to admit, software samplers definately have a huge advantage nowadays... with a hardware sampler like a Akai MPC, the only real benefit your gonna have is that its a peice of hardware u can touch and carry with you.. your still gonnahave it run through a computer, and have to record all the audio through a computer etc... might as well get a peice of software that does the same thing even better, and runs straight inside Ableton or something.
And you mentioned Moby's drum machine collection... it is impressive for sure.. but just be clear, he does'nt actually use them all on his songs... the majority of them don't get used.. he is a collector. When he does use them, he samples them to a sampler/software in a DAW and uses it that way on his songs.. but he does'nt actually use them directly (he has stated this in past interviews.) Plus just by listening to his music you can tell it is sampled drums.. drum machines generally can't create those kind of sounds. (in of themselves, drum machines are extremely limited, and mostly go for high prices because of vintage status. Like the tr-909 and 808 etc.. you hardly ever hear music nowadays that uses them, but they are analog and vintage and right now there is a surge in this market, so they go for a hefty price)
You mentioned your looking for speakers/monitors... check out the KRK lines! KRK monitors are great! and affordable! (im making a random estimate and gonna say probably half the people here use KRK's as is suggested in all the photo threads)
Moog Voyager RME / Moog LP SE 2 / Nord Rack 1 / Microkorg / Korg ER-1 / Triggerfinger / Rocktron Banshee talk box / Ableton live / Guru / Lots of non-electric musical instruments.
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echodeluxe
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:54 am
It's funny how it works like that isn't it! I mean I'm only new to creating music (I studied Psychology/Journalism at Uni) on a grand scale, only twangin' away on guitar, but when I find a piece of gear it's always about that more so than the valuation/whatever else. The ONLY rule of thumb is I never base it on looks alone. It has to be playability and sound as well as looks. I made this mistake with a Rickenbacker 425 and for 6'3" kid with bear hands... needless to say, it was disaster after picking it up. Same with the Fender Bronco. Lovely guitar, lovely sound... but good luck getting your hands around the B-width necks of the day!
The KRK's are what I've had my eye on forever. I think I'll just have to shut up and do it. I need ONE source of good sound as my 15watt guitar amp will be substituted with a 4watt/10" version. I will DEFINITELY miss the extra "oomph". But I guess that could be a nice contradiction in a half tiled/half floor board room with a mic clamp? I've got good results using a Vibro Champ before.
Okay, too much guitar talk! Back to Moog.
So I found something quite interesting. The PS-3 + Moog could effectively be MY sound I've been after. After much testing and with an AD-900 thrown in there for extra space (and craze, read further) I've come up with so many great drone-like sounds. They're all pretty similar sure but it's the longest I've actually sat down and just noodled. Usually it's hitting the books. I really wish I had a looper or recording interface of some kind (MIXER!!) so I can jam along to them which was my main aim and just adding drums/other sounds and instruments as extras (I wrote a song using samples and stuff too, LOVE the Mogwai stuff).
One feature I loved about those controllers was the fact that I can have a poly-like keyboard as well. I've always loved reverb swells/etc as well as the harsher/more analog sounds. So hopefully I can create some nice visuals with that stuff as well.
To get an idea of where my brains coming from; this is what I've been listening to lately:
The Books - Thought for Food
Monsters Of Folk - Self titled
Pooma - Self titled (please, please give this band a go!!!)
Sonic Youth - Washing Machine
Giant Drag - Hearts And Unicorns
Barely any keyboards or drum machines used on any of those but that's just like asking for onion instead of pickles in your burger...
The KRK's are what I've had my eye on forever. I think I'll just have to shut up and do it. I need ONE source of good sound as my 15watt guitar amp will be substituted with a 4watt/10" version. I will DEFINITELY miss the extra "oomph". But I guess that could be a nice contradiction in a half tiled/half floor board room with a mic clamp? I've got good results using a Vibro Champ before.
Okay, too much guitar talk! Back to Moog.
So I found something quite interesting. The PS-3 + Moog could effectively be MY sound I've been after. After much testing and with an AD-900 thrown in there for extra space (and craze, read further) I've come up with so many great drone-like sounds. They're all pretty similar sure but it's the longest I've actually sat down and just noodled. Usually it's hitting the books. I really wish I had a looper or recording interface of some kind (MIXER!!) so I can jam along to them which was my main aim and just adding drums/other sounds and instruments as extras (I wrote a song using samples and stuff too, LOVE the Mogwai stuff).
One feature I loved about those controllers was the fact that I can have a poly-like keyboard as well. I've always loved reverb swells/etc as well as the harsher/more analog sounds. So hopefully I can create some nice visuals with that stuff as well.
To get an idea of where my brains coming from; this is what I've been listening to lately:
The Books - Thought for Food
Monsters Of Folk - Self titled
Pooma - Self titled (please, please give this band a go!!!)
Sonic Youth - Washing Machine
Giant Drag - Hearts And Unicorns
Barely any keyboards or drum machines used on any of those but that's just like asking for onion instead of pickles in your burger...
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echodeluxe
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:54 am
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anoteoftruth
- Posts: 441
- Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:34 am
- Location: Edmonton, AB
- Contact:
I actually used to love The Books.. great stuff they do... and I checked out all the others you noted there on Youtube. Good stuff.
The books use samplers for their music.. They sample all acoustic sounds, obscure acoustic sounds made with guitars/mandolins/basses, any instruments... and they sample them, cut them up, and make really melodic rythms with it.... the idea itself is really easy to do, but doing it well is another matter (and a matter of taste).
The other stuff your right, there are not much for synth's/drum machines in the music.. But remember w the little fatty you can run audio through the filter with the audio in... Try running your guitar through the filter... it can sound amazing. Especially if your looking for a kind of punchy filtered rythm effect like the rythms in that Sonic Youth song.
You and me seem a lot alike in some regards. I started out completely on guitar, for years.. Started with old rock like Zeppelin, got really into Radiohead and things at the time, then studied jazz and classical guitar for a while.. I started teaching when I was a late teen.. but I was'nt really content with that singular position in music anymore.. Especially when listening to bands like Radiohead, Sigur Ros, Mum etc.. they all had that electronic influence.. different sounds that I could'nt put my finger on how they were made.. so I was more interested in learning how, and finding out how I can be creative like that.
It really is a journey man. Getting into the sampling world, got me into the synth world.. it just keeps going and going.. I just try to remember not to isolate any of it in terms of what I can do w them... (ie, drum machines dont just have to be for electronic music, synths dont have to just be in electronic/hip hop etc...) and I try to always keep experimenting with blending sounds and genres together. Thats how new sounds, new genres, are developed imo.
When you have samplers, and a analog synth.. you really can do just about anything your mind can think up.. you can sample/layer organic sounds, changing them with timing, pitch, effects, making it sound however you want... can make drum sounds out of whatever you find in your house, hitting and tapping into the mic and changing it on the comp.. mix it with guitars, add synth basses, chop up vocal samples.. its pretty endless the ideas you can do. Sometimes the best sounding stuff just happens when your playing around, not knowing what your doing haha.
BTW love the idea of opening a store for this kind of stuff.. My big gut is halfway there haha.
The books use samplers for their music.. They sample all acoustic sounds, obscure acoustic sounds made with guitars/mandolins/basses, any instruments... and they sample them, cut them up, and make really melodic rythms with it.... the idea itself is really easy to do, but doing it well is another matter (and a matter of taste).
The other stuff your right, there are not much for synth's/drum machines in the music.. But remember w the little fatty you can run audio through the filter with the audio in... Try running your guitar through the filter... it can sound amazing. Especially if your looking for a kind of punchy filtered rythm effect like the rythms in that Sonic Youth song.
You and me seem a lot alike in some regards. I started out completely on guitar, for years.. Started with old rock like Zeppelin, got really into Radiohead and things at the time, then studied jazz and classical guitar for a while.. I started teaching when I was a late teen.. but I was'nt really content with that singular position in music anymore.. Especially when listening to bands like Radiohead, Sigur Ros, Mum etc.. they all had that electronic influence.. different sounds that I could'nt put my finger on how they were made.. so I was more interested in learning how, and finding out how I can be creative like that.
It really is a journey man. Getting into the sampling world, got me into the synth world.. it just keeps going and going.. I just try to remember not to isolate any of it in terms of what I can do w them... (ie, drum machines dont just have to be for electronic music, synths dont have to just be in electronic/hip hop etc...) and I try to always keep experimenting with blending sounds and genres together. Thats how new sounds, new genres, are developed imo.
When you have samplers, and a analog synth.. you really can do just about anything your mind can think up.. you can sample/layer organic sounds, changing them with timing, pitch, effects, making it sound however you want... can make drum sounds out of whatever you find in your house, hitting and tapping into the mic and changing it on the comp.. mix it with guitars, add synth basses, chop up vocal samples.. its pretty endless the ideas you can do. Sometimes the best sounding stuff just happens when your playing around, not knowing what your doing haha.
BTW love the idea of opening a store for this kind of stuff.. My big gut is halfway there haha.
Moog Voyager RME / Moog LP SE 2 / Nord Rack 1 / Microkorg / Korg ER-1 / Triggerfinger / Rocktron Banshee talk box / Ableton live / Guru / Lots of non-electric musical instruments.
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echodeluxe
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:54 am
Radiohead and mum are great bands! Definitely some great moments having listened to those. Some of my bigger influences tend to span from the lofi side of things though... Neutral Milk Hotel and Modest Mouse are my two favourite bands who've dished out 3 of my top 10 albums.
Thanks again for all the advice and I think I'm getting the Jazz thing more and more lately. One Quiet Night - Pat Metheny. My word. If I could play guitar like that I wouldn't need a keyboard or anything... just have rack after rack of expensive midi equipment and have the world at my finger tips (so to speak)
Tonight was another night that I've discovered more about the LP that I love. I found that by using reverb and couple it with an octave up/delay I can get some really, really nice "bubbly sounds". I don't know how to describe it? I used to call it Poly till someone shunned me for it and reminded me it's a term they use as opposed to Mono and NOT a sound. It's definitely not "ethereal" but it has that (I'm going to hate myself for this analogy) "broke angel" type feel. It's with pedals because the theme can remain (you can use it with pedals and still be apart of a concept-sound which I'm big on considering, given my responses so far, I fail at limiting my output when trying to explain myself/a sound).
A couple of weird points for me too as of last night...
1) I have an aircon in my room and hear they can go out of tune. Is this going to be an issue? Should I move it to another room?
2) The headphone thing. How am I going to get it to send to both channels on my headphones? It really does feel awkward after a while!
3) What's some good/cheaper mixers? Again, something I fail at and those Mackies just look pretty/something I used when doing AV so I don't want to be spending unneeded money as they seem to be the industry standard
One last thing? 6" or 8" rokits? I see the 8"s go for reasonable prices all the time (more common than the 6"s) but I think they'd be a bit... big? I found out today I may be moving into a two bedroom cottage with a friend! I'm kind of excited because it's in such a beautiful suburb away from where I am (my suburb has been on world news like 10 times in the past 5 years lol) and means I will have a bedroom 5m by 2.5m to work with.
Thanks again for all the advice and I think I'm getting the Jazz thing more and more lately. One Quiet Night - Pat Metheny. My word. If I could play guitar like that I wouldn't need a keyboard or anything... just have rack after rack of expensive midi equipment and have the world at my finger tips (so to speak)
Tonight was another night that I've discovered more about the LP that I love. I found that by using reverb and couple it with an octave up/delay I can get some really, really nice "bubbly sounds". I don't know how to describe it? I used to call it Poly till someone shunned me for it and reminded me it's a term they use as opposed to Mono and NOT a sound. It's definitely not "ethereal" but it has that (I'm going to hate myself for this analogy) "broke angel" type feel. It's with pedals because the theme can remain (you can use it with pedals and still be apart of a concept-sound which I'm big on considering, given my responses so far, I fail at limiting my output when trying to explain myself/a sound).
A couple of weird points for me too as of last night...
1) I have an aircon in my room and hear they can go out of tune. Is this going to be an issue? Should I move it to another room?
2) The headphone thing. How am I going to get it to send to both channels on my headphones? It really does feel awkward after a while!
3) What's some good/cheaper mixers? Again, something I fail at and those Mackies just look pretty/something I used when doing AV so I don't want to be spending unneeded money as they seem to be the industry standard
One last thing? 6" or 8" rokits? I see the 8"s go for reasonable prices all the time (more common than the 6"s) but I think they'd be a bit... big? I found out today I may be moving into a two bedroom cottage with a friend! I'm kind of excited because it's in such a beautiful suburb away from where I am (my suburb has been on world news like 10 times in the past 5 years lol) and means I will have a bedroom 5m by 2.5m to work with.
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echodeluxe
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:54 am
Hi guys!
After a while of tuning out and getting stuck with the Moog I've come to the conclusion that I'm a convert! I've sold the Freq Box and moved on to just concentrating on getting my scales/know how around the LPII up (it was my first synth remember).
Anyway, needless to say... it's stuck as a keeper. I've bought some KRK 6" monitors, a little Vox solid state amp, a mixer, microphones, etc... slowly getting my 'studio' together. By no means is it a 'real' studio, it's just somewhere I like to hang out and make tunes.
I have ANOTHER question guys... I'm foreign to MIDI as well (surprise surprise). Can I run the Moog through my computer/mixer/etc and get piano/polyphonic/whatever sounds? I know the Moog itself is a mono synth but I wanted to know how it worked as just a controller? I just want to use the keys and just have like Piano software or something.
I ordered the side panels about two months ago now and they're yet to arrive due to size imperfections I was told? The original template was off or some dealio? I don't know but I hope they arrive :/ It's the second non-eBay item I've ever bought... both ironically at the same time, both have yet to arrive!
One was a strap from a US store and the other was the side panels from another US store
After a while of tuning out and getting stuck with the Moog I've come to the conclusion that I'm a convert! I've sold the Freq Box and moved on to just concentrating on getting my scales/know how around the LPII up (it was my first synth remember).
Anyway, needless to say... it's stuck as a keeper. I've bought some KRK 6" monitors, a little Vox solid state amp, a mixer, microphones, etc... slowly getting my 'studio' together. By no means is it a 'real' studio, it's just somewhere I like to hang out and make tunes.
I have ANOTHER question guys... I'm foreign to MIDI as well (surprise surprise). Can I run the Moog through my computer/mixer/etc and get piano/polyphonic/whatever sounds? I know the Moog itself is a mono synth but I wanted to know how it worked as just a controller? I just want to use the keys and just have like Piano software or something.
I ordered the side panels about two months ago now and they're yet to arrive due to size imperfections I was told? The original template was off or some dealio? I don't know but I hope they arrive :/ It's the second non-eBay item I've ever bought... both ironically at the same time, both have yet to arrive!
One was a strap from a US store and the other was the side panels from another US store
Re: New LPII user
... I did use the LP as a MIDI controller... Kinda strange to get used to the polyphony, but it works fine. If you haven't yet picked up a Moog EP expression pedal, get one... inexpensive ($ 40. or so) and it frees your hands from at least one control. I use it for Filter Cutoff, and that will probably extend the life of the FC knob!
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echodeluxe
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:54 am
Re: New LPII user
This is definite good news to me! I will have some fun hours investigating and whatever else but man oh man I'm excited. I finally have 98% of my rig sorted and the little bits are finally tying themselves together. It's been in half way hell for a while after starting out with just a measly Roland Cube and Fender Jaguar... 
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anoteoftruth
- Posts: 441
- Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:34 am
- Location: Edmonton, AB
- Contact:
Re: New LPII user
I use my LP to control my Voyager, my Nord Lead Rack (polyponic) and all my software VST's etc.. so yes, definately a good midi controller for whatever u wanna do.. polyphony included. Not hard to set up, it's all plug and play for me.
Moog Voyager RME / Moog LP SE 2 / Nord Rack 1 / Microkorg / Korg ER-1 / Triggerfinger / Rocktron Banshee talk box / Ableton live / Guru / Lots of non-electric musical instruments.
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echodeluxe
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:54 am
Re: New LPII user
I'm still yet to get Logic and waiting on my Garage Band stuff to come in but I did get good news on these puppies:
Seems most of the hardware stuff are done minus the Padkontrol, but I want a firm grip on software before I attempt that
Seems most of the hardware stuff are done minus the Padkontrol, but I want a firm grip on software before I attempt that