Point to point vs PCB/ AC vs Batteries

EricK · Post by **EricK** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:20 am

I can't think of a better place to ask this question.

My sister is looking at some analogue pedals, one of which, the Analogue Man Beano Boost uses point to point soldering as seen here (most of you prepared to answer the questions need no examples):

What are your thoughts about this type of circuit? Do you think it is more fragile or quieter?

Also, if you have a unit that takes its power from the wall vs one that is battery powered, is there any difference in the sound that it will create?

Thanks to anyone who can answer these questions.

Eric

Just Me · Post by **Just Me** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:21 am

PTP wiring is not any better or worse than PCB wiring in many instances. It is more fragile as it doesnt allow as stable a mechanical connection. In some high power circuits it is more desireable as you can spread the circuit out and not have inductors interact with each other. It is a lot easier to do if you are only going to make a few devices and if they are low density. In the boutique market it has become a marketing tool.

As far a batteries over AC. The only real advantage I can see on batteries is they are less likely to cause ground loops and are less cable on the floor. AC won't go dead in the middle of a performance. Most internal supplies are well filtered, most wall warts are not.

narrowcaster · Post by **narrowcaster** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:00 am

+1 to Just Me's remarks on PTP wiring. I think in an amp it can sometimes make sense, but in a pedal I doubt it's ever an advantage. And even in amps, a well-designed circuit board can give you the same design features with the added benefit of mechanical soundness. IMO, the very best design is a well laid-out PCB with discrete components that are easy to access and change.

Regarding batteries, I always try to get pedals that take both batteries and adapters, and then just use whatever's handiest at the time. In some circuits, an under-voltage battery or one that's a little saggy in its response can sound different from an adapter. Especially with fuzzes, some people like this sound better, which is why some power supplies have a sag feature built in to simulate a dying battery. With a boost pedal, different batteries might produce nice results if the boost isn't intended to be transparent, although as the low-battery coloration increases the circuit will also likely do less actual boosting. But if you/she want a clean transparent boost, a non-noisy adapter or very fresh battery is the best choice.

MC · Post by MC » Sat Feb 13, 2010 3:24 pm

Also you have to be careful of those terminal strips. They get brittle as they age. If they break then components are vulnerable to breakage. Replacing a strip means a rewire job for all those components.

Kent · Post by **Kent** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 4:12 pm

Answer: It depends...

There are many factors in what makes a system a good sounding one. It all adds up, and in many cases, may not make a difference at all. Don't get hung up on it. Listen to the finished product and decide whether it inspires you or not. This is far more important.

EricK · Post by **EricK** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 4:14 pm

Those are all some excellent points.

Have any of you heard of the vintage rangemaster boosting pedal?

My sister is a guitar player who is looking to buy a Marshall Haze 40 and wants a good pedal to go with it.

Klopfgeist · Post by **Klopfgeist** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 4:41 pm

If she wants a nice boost pedal I would go with a Fulltone OCD or a ZVex Super Hard-On. Both are excellent pedals, but the SHO is a tad expensive, but then again this is a Moog forum...

superd2112 · Post by **superd2112** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 4:55 pm

Klopfgeist wrote:If she wants a nice boost pedal I would go with a Fulltone OCD or a ZVex Super Hard-On. Both are excellent pedals, but the SHO is a tad expensive, but then again this is a Moog forum...

Good point - I've always been fond of my vintage Ibanez Tube Screamer and my Frantone HepCat, but this is indeed a Moog forum. As for hand-wired vs. mass-produced, Kent said it best - let your ears be the judge.

Hammy · Post by **Hammy** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:02 pm

I own many Marshalls, some with pcbs and many with PTP. Sonically, I can't hear any substantial advantage or disadvantage to either, as there are great sounding and there are ho-hum sounding amps on both sides of the fence.

Now in regards to working on them, PTP is vastly superior.

Hamilton

Just Me · Post by **Just Me** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:40 am

As a tech from the PTP days, I can honestly say I'd rather work on PCBs.
I still have speaker crossovers that are spread over the back of the speaker cabinet and a couple of Hammond Organs and 3 Leslies that are PTP and Working on them and signal tracing is so much more difficult to me than on PCBs. Like anything, having the proper tools makes the job easier. I don't work on SMDs as I don't have the special solder/desolder unit. If I ever have to do the work, I'll buy the tools.
(and the hardest thing about PTP in todays world is finding components with the much longer leads that they had back in the day.)

narrowcaster · Post by **narrowcaster** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:15 pm

Also a side note (might be important in some contexts). In the guitar world it's common to hear people say PTP when they really mean "connected up on a board but with wires rather than printed traces." Strictly speaking, PTP means there is no circuit board at all.

Kevin Lightner · Post by **Kevin Lightner** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 4:21 pm

Strictly speaking, PTP means there is no circuit board at all.

There are circuit boards with no printed traces where the builder wires things up PTP.

I don't personally care what the syntax is.
I'm just saying that not all circuit boards have printed traces and thus, by definition, are wired up PTP.
Or maybe there's a better definition when using perf board construction?