Voyager making life difficult

[jon_kull]

I just checked out your soundcloud site... very nice stuff! I actually don't do dance music either. This dance thing was a demo for Subtronik who says you can't make dance music with a modular. I'm also not really into glitchy stuff. Mostly textures and drones that I can layer on top of each other and a little bit of percussion.

My interests are more in ambient music which is what lead me to the modular. I set mine up like a 'normal' monosynth (VCOs, VCFs, VCAs, LFOs, ADSRs) with an assortment of filters so I could get more variety in the textures I create. The only 'odd' modules I have are some lowpass gates. They make for great VCAs and can really thicken up a sound. The truth is I could do a lot of what I do with just a Voyager but I like having more control over my patches, the availability of extra filter types and the ability to do FM. FM with the Voyager is kind of blah.

After listening to your music I still think you'd be happy with a modular rather than the Voyager but like I said in my last message you ultimately need to choose the tool you'll be most comfortable using and the Voyager is still a very nice synth. You have valid points for wanting one.

[MarkM]

I think you can make dance music with a modular or even a Coke bottle. To me, is whether or not you are going to use it in a live performance or not. In live performance, the changing of patches would be a hinderance. In the studio, a modular would be a great tool.

As I wrote earlier, I saw Richard Devine do a groove/beat set using laptops loaded with an array of sounds, many of which were created by modulars. The sounds were mammoth and very organic. So you can certainly do dance music with a modular. It's whether or not you use it live; it wouldn't be practical in my opinion.

[jon_kull]

Hey Mark...I just checked out your reverb nation site. Beautiful! I particularly enjoyed Beyond the Vaulting Sky, Gravitational Sling, Sailing Into Calm Remembrances and The Subtleties Between Desire. Well...I like them all really. My stuff is more along the unsettling and minimal lines but I've always gotten my inspiration from things that make me sad...even in my other art. When I have it a little more polished I may post some of it.

It's whether or not you use it live; it wouldn't be practical in my opinion.

Yeah, I kind of agree with this. Though there are people that patch live...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pavBmNdVfQY

[MarkM]

Thanks Jon. Cortini is quite good, and that was a nice video link.

I'd like to hear some more of your tracks. M is for Modular is a very cool track. If you haven't already, check out my last performance:

http://cityskies.com/Jul2009/july2009recordia.html

It is one of my more minimal sets and is heavily laced with Voyager.

Lux has some great tracks as well. I caught the Legiti homage immediately. That track used in "2001" has always inspired/scared me.

I personally don't own a modular. I would love to have one, but my current equipment lineup keeps me pretty busy and satisfied. However, I have daydreamed about owning one.

[jon_kull]

Thanks Jon. Cortini is quite good, and that was a nice video link.

I'd like to hear some more of your tracks. M is for Modular is a very cool track. If you haven't already, check out my last performance:

http://cityskies.com/Jul2009/july2009recordia.html

It is one of my more minimal sets and is heavily laced with Voyager.

Lux has some great tracks as well. I caught the Legiti homage immediately. That track used in "2001" has always inspired/scared me.

I personally don't own a modular. I would love to have one, but my current equipment lineup keeps me pretty busy and satisfied. However, I have daydreamed about owning one.

Yeah, I like Cortini. I had tickets to that Analoglive event but couldn't go at the last minute. I was so disappointed.

These are kind of cool too...though a little bleep and bloopy. Makes me want a Buchla though I'd probably need a second mortgage to afford it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5y20BdNMug

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FF6O6Ne9wQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEOf9Ox45Vc

My tracks are pretty rough right now. I tend to build up a bunch of tracks, do some quick mixes and bounce them out to stereo. Then I listen to them over and over again on my ipod while I'm at work and and go back and 'clean them up' later. Since my wife and I had a baby it's become hard to find the time to do that but I fit it in here and there when I can. When I have something solid I'll definitely share.

I can't get your set to stream. It could be our firewall here at work. I'll have a listen when I get home.

Yes, Lux does have some nice tracks.

Your setup seems to work very well for you and that's what's important in the end. I've had so much gear over the years and up until I 'went modular' I barely accomplished anything with any of it. I really enjoy the modular workflow and find that it helps me to be a lot more creative than I've been in the past. So for me it was a great choice. I've actually sold off quite a few things since I started using it. It would probably be my desert island synth.

[Subtronik]

http://recoilsun.bandcamp.com/track/m-is-for-modular

Not bad, especially since you made it so quick. Shows me dance music is possible with modulars.

The only thing that bothers me is the modular sounds sound cheap, like a synthedit VSTi.

And btw, I never said you can't make dance music with modulars, only that I've never heard any that I knew of.

[CTRLSHFT]

The audio itself is here: http://recoilsun.bandcamp.com/track/m-is-for-modular

This was a fun exercise. I may try this with my Voyager OS next.

Diggin' the acid.

[jon_kull]

The only thing that bothers me is the modular sounds sound cheap, like a synthedit VSTi.

It's probably my mixing. I mixed with headphones. I rolled off a lot of low end and over compressed it...among other things. Read below.

And btw, I never said you can't make dance music with modulars, only that I've never heard any that I knew of.

Sorry that was me reading between the lines but you are correct you didn't say that and if I misinterpreted you I'm sorry about that.

By the way I don't know if you read my 'explanation' post on page 2 so...

This is about using a modular in a more musical context. It's not about my musicianship or mixing abilities. Speaking of mixing we have a baby in the house and I'm forced to mix through headphones. This sounds great on my AKG K271s...it sounds like crap on my car stereo. It sounds like crap on my laptop speakers. I don't know how it will sound when you listen to it. I would suggest a good pair of headphones or some monitors. Anyway...it's a 32 measure loop that repeats twice with an 8 measure intro.

Kick drum: self-oscillating filter run through VCA controlled by an envelope.

Hats, snare and 'banging' sounds: FM synthesis. self-oscillating filter -> VCO FM input (adjust to taste) -> VCA controlled by envelope.

Percussion was recorded as individual drum hits into Logic and then put into Ultrabeat and sequenced.

Sweep like sound at beginning of song: self-oscillating filter -> CV input of second self-oscillating filter. Cutoff of first filter is controlled by an envelope.

There are 4 synth tracks used. They are all the same basic patch but each one uses a different filter. I also alternated between square and saw waves. The basic patch is a single VCO -> VCF -> VCA, ADSR -> VCA, ADSR -> VCF similar to the Voyager signal path. Sometimes there is an LFO connected to cutoff on the VCF.

First lead uses the Harvestman Polivoks filter. This is a recreation of the filter from the Russian Polivoks analog synth from the 1980s. It's built with the original Soviet parts (new-old stock) and was co-designed by the creator of the Polivoks.

Main bass line (that starts at the 9th measure) uses the Wiard Boogie filter. This is a vactrol filter that is based on the Moog ladder with separate filter pole outputs. I used the 6db and 18db outputs and mixed them together.

Second lead uses the Wiard Borg filter. This is a hybrid between the Korg MS-20 filter and a Buchla low pass gate. Buchla...Korg...Borg...get it?

Third arp-thing (that comes in around the 25th measure or so) uses the Livewire FrequenSteiner. This is a diode ladder filter based on the Steiner Synthasystem filter.

I sequenced and recorded this in Logic 8. I set up a midi track using the Silent Way MIDI/CV plug-in and used that to send CV/gate signals to the modular which I then recorded as audio to individual tracks via a MOTU Ultralite.

Visuals for what these patches look like can be found here: http://gallery.me.com/jon.kull#100022

The audio itself is here: http://recoilsun.bandcamp.com/track/m-is-for-modular

This was a fun exercise. I may try this with my Voyager OS next.

[Subtronik]

It's probably my mixing. I rolled off a lot of low end and over compressed it...among other things.

It's not just your example, it's video clips I've seen of modulars in action as well.

Maybe it's just a matter of inserting the right effects to beef up the overall sound, but I've always thought that a machine as expensive as a full on modular should automatically sound huge.

[Bryan T]

Are people making new sounds with Voyagers?

[jon_kull]

It's probably my mixing. I rolled off a lot of low end and over compressed it...among other things.

It's not just your example, it's video clips I've seen of modulars in action as well.

Maybe it's just a matter of inserting the right effects to beef up the overall sound, but I've always thought that a machine as expensive as a full on modular should automatically sound huge.

Well you can't really trust the audio quality of youtube videos.

I think filter type can play a role. For example the Borg puts out a tremendous amount of low end. The FrequenSteiner not so much...I find it more effective in bandpass mode on middle frequencies. I really do however think in this case it's my mixing. I can make anything (even my Voyager) sound small.

[Just Me]

Are people making new sounds with Voyagers?

I do! A few a week as I work with it. (I probably only use 50 of all the patches that came with it. The rest were just programming examples to help get to the sound "I" wanted.)

[Lux_Seeker]

Thanks Jon. Cortini is quite good, and that was a nice video link.

I'd like to hear some more of your tracks. M is for Modular is a very cool track. If you haven't already, check out my last performance:

http://cityskies.com/Jul2009/july2009recordia.html

It is one of my more minimal sets and is heavily laced with Voyager.

Lux has some great tracks as well. I caught the Legiti homage immediately. That track used in "2001" has always inspired/scared me.

I personally don't own a modular. I would love to have one, but my current equipment lineup keeps me pretty busy and satisfied. However, I have daydreamed about owning one.

Mark, this is good old school EM. I really liked it. How much of this is the Voyager. I am very intested in the bell like sounds around the middle of the track. The percurssive sounds are also very interesting.

I am also wondering what you are using for a delay?

This is what I mean about the Voyager. It's capable of some really interesting sounds. Perhaps not as flexible as a full blown modular but great sounds.

There is also a low machine drone after the percussive section in the middle. Voyager? If so then outstanding. One of the type of sounds I want is a machine like drone like this. It's part of a whole industrial Babylon theme I want to use for background tracks for part of a CD.

After the drone you have some plucked string like sounds that sound Buchla like to me. Vactrol based? Whatever they are, again, outstanding.

Then the drone changes. Very complex, beautiful.

The flute like sound - Voyager? - again, great sound.

Then there is a sawtooth sound that sound flute like - again, great sound

Complex rhythmic section towards the end - that has to be a Voyager - I don't know of anything else that sounds like that - boldly electronic, phat but not obese, lively and beautiful.

Very impressive work which proves my point that a Voyager can create incredible sounds. How much of this work was a Voyager? If this is mostly Voyager then its a better add for Voyager than the stuff on Moog's site. A lot better.

[Lux_Seeker]

I personally don't own a modular. I would love to have one, but my current equipment lineup keeps me pretty busy and satisfied. However, I have daydreamed about owning one.

Aha! You prove my point. I listened to more of your music. I want to hear more. Most EM I hear is dance oriented. Yours is not. It's what I call old school EM, real EM. Great work but if you can do this without a modular then your analogue stuff must be largely Voyager or do you use a lot of soft synth and virtual analogues? The only other semi modular analogue I can think of is the revised Prophet 5. Of course there is also the Phatty but most stuff out there is digital.

[Lux_Seeker]

Regarding Cortini:

I like the post here. One thing however I do notice about modular users is that they all seem to rely on a sequencer. Don't get me wrong, sequencers are very useful but I have a Korg M3 and yes, its digital but its a beatiful synth and if you have not heard of KARMA check it out. Stephen Kay calls it a sequencer on steriods but its an amazing tool. I have not even come close to figuring out everything that it can do. If I get a Voyager I can also sample it and then sequence it with KARMA.

It seems to me that with MIDI control of the Voyager as well, there are lots of possiblities. I look at the modular sources of uncertainty, woggle bugs and the lke and I think to myself - can't this be done with MIDI and a Voyager. Why create complex analogue circuts for what a computer can generate much more easily. In fact, some of these modules have a computer chip in them.

Modulars have an advantage in that they have a wide variety of filters and yes, I do like a lot of the stuff I hear. Wasp filters, Borg/Korg fitlers, ect. I also like things like crossovers and CV controlled mixers but what if Moog created a CP-251 style set of fitlers? I am also wondering if the Voyager can allow and insert to bypass the filter? This would also for also fiters to be used. Supplementing the Voyager with a small modular in time might be the way to go but for right now, I can do a lot with a Voyager.

the other side of this is that I love the sound. It's what I love about the M3. Tech wise, in many ways the Motiff is a more than adequate competition but the M3 sounds great. It's musical. And that is what I see the Voyager being, an instrument, something musical. Technical specs don't impress me as much as what I hear.

I also see the Voyager as something that can be layered. Ableton Live is a great way to do this and I would love it if Ableton did something like MOTU did with Volta and add it to Ableton.

What I am saying here is that the sonic uiniverse that I may be able to create with a Voyager is something that I can easily use for the next few years and if down the line, I want to add a small modular, more for processing, then I will do that. That at least is the direction I am going in at the moment.

The comments here have been outstanding and very very helpful to me so thanks to all.