Voyager Ed/Lib available
Some questions about the behaviour of the editor
Hi soundt,
thank you for answering our questions this way. Its very helpful ...
I'd collect some questions and would be glad if you could tell me somewhat about the background of the functionality.
1. Why don't the sliders and switches (inside the editor) move if I move the knobs and switches at the MMV (or does my copy not work, or did I forget some initialization)? As I know any movement at the MMV is sent via MIDI ...
2. Most sliders are moving downward (into the direction of lower values) if I scroll the mouse wheel upward. I'd expected that the sliders of the editor would follow the mouse wheel into the "same" direction. (BTW I found some switches that were changing "like expected").
3. If a value of such a slider is nearest to its end of range value (e.g. "1" or "254" in 8 bit mode) then turning the mouse wheel often cannot bring that slider to its original end value (e.g. "0" or "255").
4. The state of any switch (e.g. blue and red ones) isn't "visible" for me, sorry. There is (only mostly!) a "ON/OFF" (or "HI/LO" or similarly) symbol near by such a switch that reflects the state of the switch exactly. But the changes in colour of those switches doesn't help me to see, witch state was chosen ... Could you please try out if avoiding that drastically change in colour (brightness) would help to recognize the actual state, please?
5. Why did you use sliders instead of the original "turning" knobs and switches? It would be very helpful if the editor would represent the status of the MMV knobs and switches more realistically, do you think so?
6. Do you intend to add any print function to the editor?
As I'm not sitting in front of the editor actually, I would like to give you more feedback if I'm back at home.
Many thanks in advance!
thank you for answering our questions this way. Its very helpful ...
I'd collect some questions and would be glad if you could tell me somewhat about the background of the functionality.
1. Why don't the sliders and switches (inside the editor) move if I move the knobs and switches at the MMV (or does my copy not work, or did I forget some initialization)? As I know any movement at the MMV is sent via MIDI ...
2. Most sliders are moving downward (into the direction of lower values) if I scroll the mouse wheel upward. I'd expected that the sliders of the editor would follow the mouse wheel into the "same" direction. (BTW I found some switches that were changing "like expected").
3. If a value of such a slider is nearest to its end of range value (e.g. "1" or "254" in 8 bit mode) then turning the mouse wheel often cannot bring that slider to its original end value (e.g. "0" or "255").
4. The state of any switch (e.g. blue and red ones) isn't "visible" for me, sorry. There is (only mostly!) a "ON/OFF" (or "HI/LO" or similarly) symbol near by such a switch that reflects the state of the switch exactly. But the changes in colour of those switches doesn't help me to see, witch state was chosen ... Could you please try out if avoiding that drastically change in colour (brightness) would help to recognize the actual state, please?
5. Why did you use sliders instead of the original "turning" knobs and switches? It would be very helpful if the editor would represent the status of the MMV knobs and switches more realistically, do you think so?
6. Do you intend to add any print function to the editor?
As I'm not sitting in front of the editor actually, I would like to give you more feedback if I'm back at home.
Many thanks in advance!
Frank
I think the visual reference to the Voyager is not real happing in the software. If one sees a screenshot, she/he should at least fell somewhat "home". But if you can't name the synth from a screenshot, the editor is only an adaption to me. And not custom tailered.
I know its a totally different story for editors of synths without real knobs at all like the Evolver (which is a fine synth too).
I know its a totally different story for editors of synths without real knobs at all like the Evolver (which is a fine synth too).
keep on turning these Moog knobs
Till "Qwave" Kopper
[url=http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/Squarewave/]Squarewave Group[/url] member "waldorfian_qwave"
Till "Qwave" Kopper
[url=http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/Squarewave/]Squarewave Group[/url] member "waldorfian_qwave"
Thank you Frank for feedback. This is great! Let me try to answer:
b) I would love to have knobs! The most important reason in our decision to go with sliders was a space. There is no way to fit all knobs on a computer screen with a standard screen resolution. The idea of the editor is to show and control all Voyager's parameters in one window. After all this is the editor not a soft-synth. We can replace sliders with knobs any time but the problem is how to do it without sacrificing the functionality of the software.
Actually no, the MMV does not send Parameter Change data when you move knobs or use switches. Some pots may send continuous controller data if configured using Pot Map, I believe. The editor can still monitor those changes if you enable "Auto Dump" option.1. Why don't the sliders and switches (inside the editor) move if I move the knobs and switches at the MMV (or does my copy not work, or did I forget some initialization)? As I know any movement at the MMV is sent via MIDI ...
No doubt, this can be interpreted both ways. Your case would be absolutely true if we had vertical sliders. In the case of horizontal sliders it is more of a personal preference. What we can do is to make a "Preferences" option window were uses can set it up in both ways.2. Most sliders are moving downward (into the direction of lower values) if I scroll the mouse wheel upward. I'd expected that the sliders of the editor would follow the mouse wheel into the "same" direction. (BTW I found some switches that were changing "like expected").
You are right - this will be fixed.3. If a value of such a slider is nearest to its end of range value (e.g. "1" or "254" in 8 bit mode) then turning the mouse wheel often cannot bring that slider to its original end value (e.g. "0" or "255").
OK. I will add this to "Preferences" option.4) Could you please try out if avoiding that drastically change in colour (brightness) would help to recognize the actual state, please?
Yes, this was a tough call... There are two reasons: a) Functionality, it would be hard for users to achieve a proper resolution. Of course using radians would increase resolution a bit but making big circles with a mouse is not really comfortable specially if you have real knobs on MMV.5) Why did you use sliders instead of the original "turning" knobs and switches? It would be very helpful if the editor would represent the status of the MMV knobs and switches more realistically, do you think so?
b) I would love to have knobs! The most important reason in our decision to go with sliders was a space. There is no way to fit all knobs on a computer screen with a standard screen resolution. The idea of the editor is to show and control all Voyager's parameters in one window. After all this is the editor not a soft-synth. We can replace sliders with knobs any time but the problem is how to do it without sacrificing the functionality of the software.
Sure, your suggestions are welcome!6. Do you intend to add any print function to the editor?
... thank you too, soundt, for answering so quickly.
Supplements to my first post:
2-1. The "LFO SYNC" switch as well as the two "SHAPING" switches are moving to the right if the mouse wheel is turned upward. (All other sliders are moving to the left side.) So, this could be a fault if you had planned to realize it all the same way ...
Of course, an option (inside a preferences menu) would be very, very nice.
4-1. Please excuse me if I'm wrong, but all the mixer switches ("EXTERNAL" ... "NOISE") are turned by 180 degree. That means, at the MMV these switches are in "OFF" positions if they are pressed at the left side. The editor shows the opposite direction ...
4-2. The "ON/OFF" symbol is missed next to the "GLIDE" and "RELEASE" switches.
4-3. The "OFF" state of the blue "EXTERNAL" switches is very good visible, I mean it looks like a realistic MMV switch. Same for the red "OSCILLATOR" switches in "OFF" or "HI" positions. The opposite states of these switches are hardly recognizable, as I mentioned before.
4-4. Neither the "OFF" nor the "ON" state of the white "GLIDE" or "RELEASE" switches is "visible" for me. Same for the red "MODE" or "ENV. GATE" switches.
Again (as you mentioned above) the colouring of those switches as an option would be very beautiful.
Two additional points:
7. Neither the position of the "PITCH" nor that of the "MOD" wheel is shown by the editor, neither after pressing the F9 key nor in the "Auto Dump" mode.
8. Inside the "Preset Banks" window I'm missing the scroll bar to move down to "higher" preset numbers (higher than "029").
I hope this will help to improve the editor ...
Even if I don't understand your answer, I suspected that I was mistaken ... I didn't try to use the "Auto Dump" button, but this is a perfect solution. On the other hand, I observed the out coming MIDI messages of the MMV and I could see that any movement of any knob or any switch sends its MIDI message, really!Actually no, the MMV does not send Parameter Change data when you move knobs or use switches. Some pots may send continuous controller data if configured using Pot Map, I believe. The editor can still monitor those changes if you enable "Auto Dump" option.
Supplements to my first post:
2-1. The "LFO SYNC" switch as well as the two "SHAPING" switches are moving to the right if the mouse wheel is turned upward. (All other sliders are moving to the left side.) So, this could be a fault if you had planned to realize it all the same way ...
Of course, an option (inside a preferences menu) would be very, very nice.
4-1. Please excuse me if I'm wrong, but all the mixer switches ("EXTERNAL" ... "NOISE") are turned by 180 degree. That means, at the MMV these switches are in "OFF" positions if they are pressed at the left side. The editor shows the opposite direction ...
4-2. The "ON/OFF" symbol is missed next to the "GLIDE" and "RELEASE" switches.
4-3. The "OFF" state of the blue "EXTERNAL" switches is very good visible, I mean it looks like a realistic MMV switch. Same for the red "OSCILLATOR" switches in "OFF" or "HI" positions. The opposite states of these switches are hardly recognizable, as I mentioned before.
4-4. Neither the "OFF" nor the "ON" state of the white "GLIDE" or "RELEASE" switches is "visible" for me. Same for the red "MODE" or "ENV. GATE" switches.
Again (as you mentioned above) the colouring of those switches as an option would be very beautiful.
Two additional points:
7. Neither the position of the "PITCH" nor that of the "MOD" wheel is shown by the editor, neither after pressing the F9 key nor in the "Auto Dump" mode.
8. Inside the "Preset Banks" window I'm missing the scroll bar to move down to "higher" preset numbers (higher than "029").
I hope this will help to improve the editor ...
Frank
I could see that any movement of any knob or any switch sends its MIDI message, really!
They do indeed. The problem is they are sending Continuous Controller data B0,XX,XX + B0,YY,YY. What it means that I cannot practically map this to the editor's controls. You would not see me back here for few months...
Please trust me I did not take time to just reverse a few2-1. The "LFO SYNC" switch as well as the two "SHAPING" switches are moving to the right if the mouse wheel is turned upward. (All other sliders are moving to the left side.) So, this could be a fault if you had planned to realize it all the same way ...
. The mouse wheel simply increases or decreases values. Some of the MMV controls assign values in opposite direction: For example some switches are 0=ON and 1=OFF. The same with some rotary switches. I really like your attention to details and I will try to make it more uniform in the next update. Both "PITCH" and "MOD" wheel possitions are not stored in the preset data. I guess the editor could reflect their possition by reading Pitch Bend and Modulation data they send. I will try7. Neither the position of the "PITCH" nor that of the "MOD" wheel is shown by the editor, neither after pressing the F9 key nor in the "Auto Dump" mode.
.Is there a whole scroll bar missing or just a fraction of it?8. Inside the "Preset Banks" window I'm missing the scroll bar to move down to "higher" preset numbers (higher than "029").
Last edited by soundt on Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Again, many many thanks for your reply.
I think, there will be a "happy end" with your editor because of your very nice discussion together with us!!!
Thank you, again, and good speed.
I can't see any scrollable at all, no fraction or anything. I'm using a large TFT display (1920 x 1200). Other applications are working normally ...Is there a whole scroll bar missing or just a fraction of it?
Sorry, I'm supposed to know that. (I'd developed a little patch interpreter for the MMV in the past, and therefor I had to consider all these things before ...). But, it would be a good idea if all sliders would move the same way if one uses the mouse wheel, of course.The mouse wheel simply increases or decreases values. Some of the MMV controls assign values in opposite direction ...
I think, there will be a "happy end" with your editor because of your very nice discussion together with us!!!
Thank you, again, and good speed.
Frank
Thanks to SoundT for replying to my earlier enquiries.
I know nothing of problems with other software, but from this forum Voyager users seem to be getting quick useful support from SoundT, long may it continue.
I would have loved the screen to have matched the Voyager layout, knobs included. For me it would have felt more "hands on" and intuitive, but I understand the constraints
I have some hardware to get and I want to learn a bit more about the systems and Midi, but the software is on the shopping list.
John
I know nothing of problems with other software, but from this forum Voyager users seem to be getting quick useful support from SoundT, long may it continue.
I would have loved the screen to have matched the Voyager layout, knobs included. For me it would have felt more "hands on" and intuitive, but I understand the constraints
I have some hardware to get and I want to learn a bit more about the systems and Midi, but the software is on the shopping list.
John
Hi-
Here is my progress report:
We added printing of patch bank, Cubase patch script generator, Cakewalk INS generator for Voyager for those who use the Voyager in their studios using sequencers. We added options for switches - how their state is displayed and etc. The update along with new demo will be available soon.
We are trying to add printing of voyager's pot and switch position. Here is a bitmap that we like to use. It needs to be smoothed out a little bit more but I think it looks promising when printed out on laser printer here.
Below this graphic, the editor will print all other invisible patch parameters with their values. Your comments are welcome! If someone has time and feels that can do a better job with graphics - please feel free to help.
Here is a draft of the bitmap template:
http://www.soundtower.com/moog/voyager_bnw.bmp
Here is my progress report:
We added printing of patch bank, Cubase patch script generator, Cakewalk INS generator for Voyager for those who use the Voyager in their studios using sequencers. We added options for switches - how their state is displayed and etc. The update along with new demo will be available soon.
We are trying to add printing of voyager's pot and switch position. Here is a bitmap that we like to use. It needs to be smoothed out a little bit more but I think it looks promising when printed out on laser printer here.
Below this graphic, the editor will print all other invisible patch parameters with their values. Your comments are welcome! If someone has time and feels that can do a better job with graphics - please feel free to help.
Here is a draft of the bitmap template:
http://www.soundtower.com/moog/voyager_bnw.bmp
