Audible differences between Voyager units?

[KarnEvil]

Hi.

Sorry if this seems like a silly question, but I know there are big differences between the vintage minimoogs in terms of sound characteristics. Has anybody done any 1:1 comparisons between different Voyager units? I have to admit I'm a bit curious of this. I've only tried out the one Voyager I have, and I'm rather pleased with the sound it makes...
Still, it would be interesting to know if someone on this forum has done any "research" in this department.
Thanks.

[Demokid]

Hi!

I have done a A/B comparison between my Model D (sn:1737) and my Voyager AE. I set up the same sound as close as I could. The Voyager really sounds like a Model D when played alone. But when comparing the sound with the Mode D it is a big difference.
The Model D is much fatter and warm sounding then the Voyager. First I checked my mixer to see if I had bass EQ on the voyager channel. The saw tooth on a Model D has more bite in them. I feel that the Model D has higher output as well.

The Voyager wins because it has some nice features like an LFO, ADSR envelopes, and memories and so on.

Kind regards
Demokid

[Boeing 737-400]

I think he means comparisons between different Voyagers. I've never tried it, but I don't think the results would be as extreme as comparing different Model D units.

[Demokid]

Ok...

Me and my friend did a A/B test using my Anniversary Edition and his Performer Edition. We used the same patch sent as SysEx from Cubase SX. We couldn’t hear any difference between the two. Maybe you can see a difference if using an oscilloscope.

[mee3d]

On May 4th this year as part of the moogfest, The Radio Science Orchestra played a set in London (with bob moog present) using 4 Voyagers . . . 2 Signature Editions and 2 Performers (there was only an AE prototype there). On one track they did a kind of "Switched on Bach" classical number with all the Voyagers using the same preset and to my ears I could not hear any noticable difference.

The original minimoog sounded different because the discreet components used had far greater working tolerances then todays well balanced components that often work within 1% variation. Engineers now know how to make systems work pretty much flawlessly . . in the old days it was often the power supplies that fluctuated, knocking the independant oscillators out of tune leading to no two minis sounding alike.

Personally I like that . . . I like the idea that there is some chance to it and that a bunch of componants can have it's own character.

Mal

[peter ripa]

i know they changed some opamps in the early line.
i have serial #12 and got mine exchanged to the one in the later versions from my store.
there was more noise and a click when the main volume was at 5 before.
when i got it back i thought the subs were less punchy but i think it was cause i no longer heard the noise from the amp section snapping in when i hit the note.

[MC]

Let's dispute the variations between model D Minimoogs.

The first couple hundred model D Minimoogs from the original R.A. Moog shop in Trumansburg had matched transistors in all five pairs in the ladder filter. In those days transistor matching had to be done by hand; as a cost cutting move the decision was made to match only the top and bottom transistor pairs in the ladder filter, which was the convention for the later ~11,000 Minimoogs.

I own one of the Trumansburg Mini's (serial 1053) with all matched transistor pairs in the filter. I have also had flight time with two other Minimoogs from the same era (serial numero uno 1001 and 1009).

It is well known that there are three versions of Minimoog oscillator boards (discrete, 3046, and ua726). All three of these Tburg era Mini's have oscillators from each version. When I played the other two they sounded exactly like mine, despite having different oscillator boards.

I have played at least two later Mini's whose filters have only the top and bottom pairs with matched transistors and the same oscillator board as mine. Those later Mini's sounded VASTLY different from mine.

What that demonstrated was that the sound of the filter was consistent from unit to unit when all the transistors pairs were matched, even with different oscillator boards. But because the middle three transistor pairs in later Mini's were NOT matched, this affected the sound from unit to unit in that poles of the filter response weren't at equidistant positions (getting technical here).

It also confirmed that the different version oscillator board makes no difference in the timbre, other than stability (early discrete boards drifted a lot).

So how is this relevant to the Voyager?

Hand matching transistors is a thing of the past. Today you can buy OTS ICs with matched transistor pairs, which the Voyager has inside.

It's a pretty safe bet that all of the transistor pairs are matched in the Voyager filters, thus the sound will be consistent from unit to unit. If it wasn't then there would be no point in patch storage.

[mee3d]

I think one has to be slightly careful when talking about "the different sound variations in minimoogs" as the description of the variation in sound can mean different things to different people.

Bob himself has often denounced this variation in sound as fiction . . . further more stating that all minimoogs past a certain serial sound identical.

In purely laymans terms people often refer to minimoogs as having their own character. This might be down to the effect of the filter on the output (and MC describes it perfectly in the previous thread), or power supply fluctuations . . I have heard people say the early fixed 110v models sounded better with the transformers exchanged for 230v units and many people say the later switchable minimoog sounds different played in 230v?

I like to think that these instruments have their own personality . . like different violins made by different masters - in my mind it's this feature that sets an analog keyboard apart from todays sample & synth playback keyboards. When you pair up a mini to an OB-8, or a Jupiter 8 to a Yamaha CS-80 etc you start to hear the unique timbres of each synth . . like the difference between a violin and cello - same family but different sounds.

I have owned 5 minimoogs in the last 18 years . . . the one I have now, bought last year (from Kelly A.K.A Control Voltage) after 6 years of not owning one is a late model with a LAM upgrade and a 70's Rivera (RMS) soft distortion modification . . . compared with a colleages minimoog (only 29 numbers difference in serial) they are poles apart . . . now it's probably to do with the mod but this was pretty standard in the 70's so there's a good chance that if you buy a Mini it will be modified (Osc sync etc).

Anyway . . . you can get very technical in all this but I think it's down to what you hear . . . from my point of view . . . I think the model D sounds better then the Voyager but many/most people favour the Voyager?

It's a funny one.

Mal

[LWG]

Hello,

I agree that there is a difference soundwise between discreetly built ckts used in synths like the Mini and IC-based designs used in others. This may show up as a meatier type of sound however, it tends to be a difference thats more important to synth owners than those who come to hear your music. Your audience mainly comes to hear good music and what it is your
band has to say musically.
I like both the Mini and the Voyager and as I've stated on a previous thread, if you happen to have both in your setup, you have an additional resource.
My own reason for preferring the Voyager is mainly because it represents a different point of departure from previous Moog gear.
Although I also like the Source and the Multi for certain things, some of the older Moog gear has a sound that at times is too familiar, which within the context of sound design, is not always what I prefer.
The Voyager gets the sound one recognizes as the Moog sound, but has functions (like switchable filter poles and modes, etc) that allow you to take your sound in another direction if you want something different.
The Voyager has sounds that are classic Moog, and also un-Moog.


regards,


LWG

[KarnEvil]

Thanks for all the replies. This is a very interesting discussion. Since you guys obviously knows much more than me about this, I'm just happy to sit back and absorb all the information.
Again thanks.