Guitar amplifier effects loop and Moogerfoogers question

radish · Post by **radish** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:23 pm

Hi everyone, this is my first post here. I am having a custom guitar amp built and the subject of an effects loop came up. I have never used one before. I am currently using the mf-101 and the mf-102. I plan to add the cp-251 and mf-103 very soon. Do you think those pedals would benefit from being put in an amplifiers effects loop? How drastic is the sound change and what kind of change is it?

Thanks in advance!

acorkos · Post by **acorkos** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:47 pm

what is the amp like?

radish · Post by **radish** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:56 pm

It's based on a Sunn Model T but with a little bit more gain.

acorkos · Post by **acorkos** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:22 pm

that's a pretty basic/pure circuit....i would ask the builder if adding an effects loop will have a detrimental effect on the amp's sound/performance compared to an amp without the loop.

have you tried your 'foogers in front of any other amp? what did you think?

radish · Post by **radish** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:32 pm

I have only tried them in front of an amp. I haven't ever had the opportunity to try an effects loop. They all sounded great to me. Do you think there would be a drastic difference between 'foogers in front of the amp or in the effects loop?

Alien8 · Post by **Alien8** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:44 pm

I would be weary of putting them in the FX loop. Though the 'foogers have great buffers in them, they can become troublesome (get in the way) when pushing the power tubes into saturation - since they distort too. They end up adding an extra gain stage between the pre and power amp in an FX loop, which, in my case flubbed out into mud when I pushed the amp. This works fine for clean, un-boosted signals, and can really warm the tone up... but not when pushing the pre amp channel into driving power tube distortion.

So with that said, you have a few options if you want to get good power tube saturation using boosts or the pre amp. You could have a bypass added to the amp to avoid the fx loop (even foot siwtchable), you could have a parallel fx loop installed as opposed to series. If your FX loop is always active (like some fender amps, you need a jumper patch cord to connect pre and post amps) then you can add a true bypass loop pedal for the foogers. As you can see it gets kind of complicated quick.

The simplest solution is just keep them out front of the amp, which is what I literally decided I'm doing with mine last night!!!!

As far as having an FX loop though, they are very handy in my opinion. I run an EQ into the pre amp, and an EQ in the FX loop. This gives me tonal control of the signal into the pre amp, and the signal after the pre, into the post (power amp). Regardless of how good an amp sounds, you can always benifit from this. FX loops do change the tone of the amp though, since the signal needs to be converted into something usable by the devices you place into the loop. Ask you builder if you can add it later... I use the FX loop for two things only, delay and EQ, but I wouldn't get an amp without it...

EricK · Post by **EricK** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:10 pm

I don't know about the technical aspects of what any amp pre amp is going to be like in respect to MoogerFoogers or Tubes,
However, to answer part of your question, the CP251 won't really do anything in your effects loop. It only has a single audio out and thats only noise.

THe CP 251 is best used for creating, distributing, routing and mixing control voltages to your other Foogers. THe CP 251 doesn't do much in the audio chain worthy of putting in an affects loop.

Now if you ran all kinds of voltage control gear in the effects loop then the CP will modulate different aspects of those or combine CV's that will ultimately have an effect on your sound.

Eric

radish · Post by **radish** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:15 pm

Thanks for the responses guys. I think I am going to pass on the effects loop in the amp. I haven't used one thus far and am not entirely sure how often I will use it in the future.

rabishu uggae · Post by **rabishu uggae** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:28 pm

I'm all for 'foogers in the front. My fx loop has a much higher gain stage than the initial output of my guitar, thus negating the cool sync effects of the FreqBox.

OT: Who's building your T clone, radish? I'd love to hear some moog'd up KT88's.

radish · Post by **radish** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 3:07 pm

Hey rabishu uggae your own stonerrock right? I remember your rig because of the moogerfoogers! Anyway, Ben Verellen is building the T clone. If you haven't all ready, check his stuff out @ http://www.verellenamplifiers.com/. If you are actually trying to get in touch with him I suggest the myspace page. The T actually has four 6550s in it. I am sure the moog's sound great through either 6550s or kt88s though.

rabishu uggae · Post by **rabishu uggae** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:32 am

radish wrote:Hey rabishu uggae your own stonerrock right? I remember your rig because of the moogerfoogers! Anyway, Ben Verellen is building the T clone. If you haven't all ready, check his stuff out @ http://www.verellenamplifiers.com/. If you are actually trying to get in touch with him I suggest the myspace page. The T actually has four 6550s in it. I am sure the moog's sound great through either 6550s or kt88s though.

Yep, same dorky handle.

World wide web's not so big after all, I guess.

I was checking out that verellen thread over there. That stuff is awesome looking. Maybe you can get the wood on your head to match the cheeks on your foogers!

Too broke for a new amp myself these days, but always like to keep up on who's cloning what and how well they're doing it. Thanks for the heads up.

Voltor07 · Post by **Voltor07** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:52 pm

Cool amps! All I need now is some money, and full-range speaker cabinet. Then I can get the neighbor's dog to STFU.