My Ridiculous and Expensive Idea.

ColorForm2113 · Post by **ColorForm2113** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:49 pm

So i was watching the Mooger DVD and i got an idea. The freqbox works best monophonic, right? so have a guitar made with six individual pickups for each string (i know there have been attempts at guitars like this but i dont know how well they worked) but with six individual outputs for each pick up...see where im going with this... then send each output to a freqbox, tune as desired. now this is where it can get really ridiculous, kinda like a "choose your own adventure" book.
my original idea was to send each freq to a mixer with stereo outs then pan the freqs how ever you wish (i like the idea of having even strings on one chanel and odd strings on the other) then send send the mixer outs to Lowpass filters and what ever FX you like ending with a stereo pedal (phaser or murf) at the end of each chain then having quadraphonic stereo sound.

on the extreme end take the original six freqs and forget the mixer and branch out FXs. 6 lowpass, 12 murfs, 24 phasers, 48 delays, 96 amps

OK, yeah that one is getting REALLY out there...

so thats my ridiculous and expensive idea. If MOOG wants to sponser me to test out this idea, or if you guys want to donate some money, that would be pretty sweet! LOL

misterhemi · Post by **misterhemi** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:04 am

From what I understand it is possible as Roland makes a pick-up with 6 individual outputs for their VG series.

Your idea seems interesting to me. If you try it good luck and let us know how it turns out.

Maybe you can use/modify the Roland pick-up? Or maybe one already exist for your application?

Henfield · Post by **Henfield** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:15 am

This would be great if you could pull it off. I do not know if the Roland pickup system outputs a Volt/Octave signal, as it is designed to output MIDI info. If Moog (or someone else) comes up with a box that takes the output of the Roland (or Yamaha or Axion, etc.....) pickup and converts it into control voltages for pitch and envelope triggering, this would be the Holy Grail that allows Guitars (and basses) to control Moog and other Volt/Octave equipment.

Hopefully this approach works better than Pitch to Voltage, as I have heard that Pitch to Voltage converters have some tracking issues, and they are not polyphonic, which is why there are not many types available. Using the Roland pickup may have some added benefits, as it has some control knobs and a small pitch bend wheel on the baseplate that attaches to the instrument. Another advantage for the Roland system is that they also make a bass version!! Hopefully any box that is developed using the Roland pickup system will work for either bass or guitar output.

Alien8 · Post by **Alien8** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:29 am

Sweet idea, I would find the Freq box useful then!! I have one low pass, one phaser, one delay, and one amp. I also have some cables, so we're partially there!!!

Gibson makes the HD 6.0 Les Paul with just what you need:

http://www.gibson.com/en%2Dus/divisions ... allespaul/

Buy a pedal snake cable for routing:

http://www.pedalsnake.com/

You'd either need 6 inputs into a mixer or an amp, or 6 amps then!!!

Cost looks to be about $7000 before you amplify the signal (guitar, 6 FB, and cables) and go down the really expensive road...

If I win a lottery, this will be my first toy purchase!!!

EricK · Post by **EricK** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:51 am

It seems like you might be able to approach that with piezo crystals installed on the bridge, essentially giving you a midi guitar. Then you run that into your computer with enough ram to have 6 softsynth programs open at the same time...like Moogler, or 6 arturia minimoogs. THe outputs from that or the regular audio output could be sent to your real foogers.

EricK

ColorForm2113 · Post by **ColorForm2113** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 12:18 am

Alien8 wrote:Sweet idea, I would find the Freq box useful then!! I have one low pass, one phaser, one delay, and one amp. I also have some cables, so we're partially there!!!

Gibson makes the HD 6.0 Les Paul with just what you need:

http://www.gibson.com/en%2Dus/divisions ... allespaul/

Buy a pedal snake cable for routing:

http://www.pedalsnake.com/

You'd either need 6 inputs into a mixer or an amp, or 6 amps then!!!

Cost looks to be about $7000 before you amplify the signal (guitar, 6 FB, and cables) and go down the really expensive road...

If I win a lottery, this will be my first toy purchase!!!

thats a good solution too. i forgot about that gibson had something like that.

but yeah the only way this is going to come true for me is if i win the lotto. i cant afford ONE freqbox let alone SIX. still taking donation til i get those winning numbers though

matt the fiddler · Post by **matt the fiddler** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 11:03 am

That is a great idea

My 6 string electric violin can be wired for individual pickup outs per string

I have though about doing similiar things.

I don't see how the "moog fools guitar" isn't somewhat possible in theory .. with out a separate signal chain per string, and really complex digital control... ha ha ha

a couple things you could do to test it.

1- record each string alone and mix it to test it (through 1 FB) use a program like Melodyne to line it up exactly before you process it... melodyne pre FB wouldn't interfere with the analog sound too much.

2- if you have a Gibson HD or can borrow one. find someone with a big modular synth (.coms are great ). Mine has 3 oscillators with hard sync, 3 envelopes , and 3 VCOs.. and I have 3 lowpass filters.. so you can get close to that sound on 3 strings on mine. power cords anyone?

Really.. arturia needs to make the moog modular REALLLY a modular where you can select more than 1 stinking stereo input, and can auctually pick how many of each effect you want (only 1 960 and 3 LPF, come on man! this is software.. it is flexible) I know I knwo they can process it.. as when you run the synth in Poly.. it has basically the # of effects used x # poly note. = up to like 20 960s!!!!

ColorForm2113 · Post by **ColorForm2113** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:55 pm

oh man i bet the FB sounds awesome with a violin... you would probably need to keep the frequency pretty high when hard synced though. but having some FM drone going over a violin solo would be sweet

Alien8 · Post by **Alien8** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:16 am

maybe the MOOG guitar will be cost effective solution to your dream!

Mooguitar · Post by **Mooguitar** » Sat May 03, 2008 6:48 pm

Henfield wrote:This would be great if you could pull it off. I do not know if the Roland pickup system outputs a Volt/Octave signal, as it is designed to output MIDI info. If Moog (or someone else) comes up with a box that takes the output of the Roland (or Yamaha or Axion, etc.....) pickup and converts it into control voltages for pitch and envelope triggering, this would be the Holy Grail that allows Guitars (and basses) to control Moog and other Volt/Octave equipment.
......

BTW--in the interest of clarification.... the Roland GK pickups DO NOT output MIDI info

-they DO output, as someone else said -- simply ...the sound of each string, all together down the 13-pin GK type cable.. Truly Hexaphonic sound...they also carry some control stuff -- volume, patch change, octave up/down, etc -- all vary based on how you've progged the device you are using them with.

-MIDI doesn't come into play until those six signals reach a Roland GI-10 or GI-20, or an Axon etc. Those devices THEN convert the 6-audio signals into MIDI, and pass the results down their MIDI OUT jack...

-Even when one uses any of the synth or virtual boxes like Roland GR1, GR09, GR33, GR30, VG8, VG88, VG99 etc...all stand alone Roland synths and virtual guitar effects processors...NO MIDI is happening....

In the case of the GR synths-- the note is simply recognized and immediately plays that note on your synth

In the case of the VG stuff--the 6 signals are PROCESSED by effects, but NO MIDI except for program change etc. The VG-99 is a big step fwd in that it includes note-to-MIDI conversion on board.

Henfield · Post by **Henfield** » Sat May 03, 2008 10:24 pm

Mooguitar wrote:
BTW--in the interest of clarification.... the Roland GK pickups DO NOT output MIDI info

-they DO output, as someone else said -- simply ...the sound of each string, all together down the 13-pin GK type cable.. Truly Hexaphonic sound...

My bad, I thought that Roland had updated their pickup system in the years since I had the original GK-1 pickup with a 24 pin connector. I though the newer units with the 13 pin connector would output more information, but they apparently do not.

The Roland units (Guitar and Bass synths, not the "virtual" systems) convert pitch to voltage for their internal synths, and some of the units (e.g. GR 700, GR 20, GR 30) convert these voltages to MIDI note information. However, I have not seen where Roland has ever had any of their guitar synth units output a 1 v/oct control voltage. They did have a Pitch to CV interface that would output a 1 v/oct signal, but it is monophonic.

Alternatively, for monophonic operation, there is a module from Analogue Systems that will output a 1 v/oct signal from any pitch signal (guitar, bass, violin, human voice, etc...), but you would need to have a Eurorack setup and power supply to run the module.

Mooguitar · Post by **Mooguitar** » Sun May 04, 2008 3:40 pm

Yes indeed, the GR units don't 'speak' MIDI until it comes to what is generated to be sent thru the MIDI out....

And the newest VG unit, the VG-99, is the first of that series to do pitch-to-MIDI. The older ones, VG-8 and VG-88, are continually, mistakenly characterized as "synths" or "MIDI guitar devices", when they are neither, with the exception of using MIDI program change and parameter expression control etc.

BTW-- the SIX FREQS idea is great and i say run with it -- surely someone can simply build a box that takes 13pin in...and has six 1/4" outs, one per string. Then you can process each individually.

In an, um, Analogous way, John McLaughlin's first foray into guitar-synth was his cumbersome system in about 1973 -- where he had a special pickup built- that sent voltage control/CV to SIX minimoogs!! One per string. He is on record several times talking about this insane venture - it actually WORKED, but was a tuning nightmare...as you all know -- the minimoogs floated as soon as temp changed onstage... now imagine that problem times 6!!