I've been able to demo the Ion in a music store locally, not so the Voyager.
Thanks
voyager vs alesis ion
voyager vs alesis ion
Thin ice I know, since this is a Moog sponsored forum, and dedicated analogers are here....but considering the Ion costs 1/3 and is polyphonic, how close is the Ion to the sound of the Voyager?
I've been able to demo the Ion in a music store locally, not so the Voyager.
Thanks
I've been able to demo the Ion in a music store locally, not so the Voyager.
Thanks
Re: voyager vs alesis ion
Define "close"gerry wrote:...how close is the Ion to the sound of the Voyager?
Its not really close to me. The Alesis A6 is closer (I used to have one). But nothing except a original Minimoog got this special sound of a Voyager. And the Voyager got some more bells and whistles then the original Mini.
After all, I traded my Alesis A6 for a Voyager.
keep on turning these Moog knobs
Till "Qwave" Kopper
[url=http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/Squarewave/]Squarewave Group[/url] member "waldorfian_qwave"
Till "Qwave" Kopper
[url=http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/Squarewave/]Squarewave Group[/url] member "waldorfian_qwave"
gerry
I had an ION for 4 weeks and it went back to Alesis UK 3 times . . in the end I sold it and bought a secondhand Korg Polysix which is far better.
I beleive the initial ION production had some teathing problems with faulty knobs and my ION certainly suffered from the "ghost" edits but I also had a blown DAC output board (straight out of the box) and then a blown performance board (pitch and mod wheels) . . . and I bought it as a cheap gigging moog soundalike . . . my memorymoog is more reliable . . . and that's saying something!!!!
With regards it sounding like a Voyager the simple answer has to be it does not sound like a Voyager. There are on board moog sounding patches that might fool the non moog experienced player but put the two side by side (which I was able to do) and it does not have the raw power a moog has, it sounded more Oberheim to me, a little like the OB-8, which isn't a bad thing and the ION is certainly the best "analog" sounding digital so far.
I do have to say that I think we are getting 'close' to a digital synth winning a blind aural test against a yesteryear analogue but we are not there yet.
My belief is that we will start to see more hybrids with digital oscillators, LFO's and envelopes but routed through real analogue filters. I hope that moog themselves go down this route and produce a new poly synth this way as it's the only way to keep costs down . . . in fact before the original moog company went bust they showed the SL-8 which was heading in this direction.
We can live in hope . . . (actually i met Bob when he was in London and put it to him and he said that a poly was not on the table for the moment - check out the interview we did at http://www.rlmusic.co.uk)
Mal
I had an ION for 4 weeks and it went back to Alesis UK 3 times . . in the end I sold it and bought a secondhand Korg Polysix which is far better.
I beleive the initial ION production had some teathing problems with faulty knobs and my ION certainly suffered from the "ghost" edits but I also had a blown DAC output board (straight out of the box) and then a blown performance board (pitch and mod wheels) . . . and I bought it as a cheap gigging moog soundalike . . . my memorymoog is more reliable . . . and that's saying something!!!!
With regards it sounding like a Voyager the simple answer has to be it does not sound like a Voyager. There are on board moog sounding patches that might fool the non moog experienced player but put the two side by side (which I was able to do) and it does not have the raw power a moog has, it sounded more Oberheim to me, a little like the OB-8, which isn't a bad thing and the ION is certainly the best "analog" sounding digital so far.
I do have to say that I think we are getting 'close' to a digital synth winning a blind aural test against a yesteryear analogue but we are not there yet.
My belief is that we will start to see more hybrids with digital oscillators, LFO's and envelopes but routed through real analogue filters. I hope that moog themselves go down this route and produce a new poly synth this way as it's the only way to keep costs down . . . in fact before the original moog company went bust they showed the SL-8 which was heading in this direction.
We can live in hope . . . (actually i met Bob when he was in London and put it to him and he said that a poly was not on the table for the moment - check out the interview we did at http://www.rlmusic.co.uk)
Mal
MC
The SL-8 had one main oscillator per voice which was a DCO, not a VCO. (OK, so a DCO is still an analogue stage with it's pitch controlled by digital signals and not voltage and is nothing like Virtual Synthesis where the waveform is created using a generic 'does it all DSP' chip).
It also had a device moog called a "Variable Harmonic Multiplier" which thickened the sound of a single digital Oscillator and also added sync like metallic effects to the sound.
It did have a Voltage Controlled sub-oscillator per voice which was used to "analog" the sound of the DCO so you may say that this is a "second" OSC but this did not have the further perameters that a normal Oscillator would have.
The Filter was Voltage controlled as was the VCA output stage but most of the other aspects of the prototype were digital. All this information can be found on the web.
When I was refering to analog/digital hybrid I wasn't refering directly to the SL-8, just pointing out that this was were technology was heading in the mid 80's (just look at the Rhodes Chroma for similarities) before the DX-7 killed it in it's tracks and if we are to see a real analog poly synth from moog ever again, at a price that people can afford this would be a good route to go down (just look at the Alesis Andromeda regarding this).
Mal
The SL-8 had one main oscillator per voice which was a DCO, not a VCO. (OK, so a DCO is still an analogue stage with it's pitch controlled by digital signals and not voltage and is nothing like Virtual Synthesis where the waveform is created using a generic 'does it all DSP' chip).
It also had a device moog called a "Variable Harmonic Multiplier" which thickened the sound of a single digital Oscillator and also added sync like metallic effects to the sound.
It did have a Voltage Controlled sub-oscillator per voice which was used to "analog" the sound of the DCO so you may say that this is a "second" OSC but this did not have the further perameters that a normal Oscillator would have.
The Filter was Voltage controlled as was the VCA output stage but most of the other aspects of the prototype were digital. All this information can be found on the web.
When I was refering to analog/digital hybrid I wasn't refering directly to the SL-8, just pointing out that this was were technology was heading in the mid 80's (just look at the Rhodes Chroma for similarities) before the DX-7 killed it in it's tracks and if we are to see a real analog poly synth from moog ever again, at a price that people can afford this would be a good route to go down (just look at the Alesis Andromeda regarding this).
Mal
SL-8 development and demise
New additional info on the SL-8 can be found at the moogarchives.com discussion board.
Craig
Craig
Craig A. Green KV5E
Principal Engineer
Research and Development
USA Mobility
Principal Engineer
Research and Development
USA Mobility
Thanks Craig for that . . . at last we can know the true spec and not go on rumors or missinterpretations.
It sounds like a kicking instrument, did anyone record any sounds out of it?
I bet if moog put that out now (well, a modern version) it would sell by the warehouse load . . . .
I really worry about moogs future direction, the analog industry although larger then it has been over the last 30 years is still quite niche, and what with virtual analog hardware and software emulation getting better it's only a matter of time before sales slump (in my opinion).
Moog need to come up with another synth product that will apeal to present Voyager owners (for repeat business) and be of interest to those that have not as yet bought a Voyager . . . due to cost or because it's a mono etc.
I think we have to see a reasonably priced poly from moog real soon . . . and maybe someone should revist the spec of the SL-8 as a starting point?
Mal
It sounds like a kicking instrument, did anyone record any sounds out of it?
I bet if moog put that out now (well, a modern version) it would sell by the warehouse load . . . .
I really worry about moogs future direction, the analog industry although larger then it has been over the last 30 years is still quite niche, and what with virtual analog hardware and software emulation getting better it's only a matter of time before sales slump (in my opinion).
Moog need to come up with another synth product that will apeal to present Voyager owners (for repeat business) and be of interest to those that have not as yet bought a Voyager . . . due to cost or because it's a mono etc.
I think we have to see a reasonably priced poly from moog real soon . . . and maybe someone should revist the spec of the SL-8 as a starting point?
Mal
Gerry,
As a fortunate owner of both an Ion and a Voyager, I can say that both boards are excellent at what they do. While the Ion can do convincing Minimoog imitations, IMHO (I'll leave the discussion on dead-on accuracy to others here), it also has filters modelled on the ARP, Boss TB-303, Roland Jupiter, Oberheim and others - 18 filter types in total. This gives the Ion fantastic sonic flexibility. Add to that two filters per voice (each being any of the 18 types in either serial or parallel), an arpeggiator, a vocoder, an effects section (no reverb, unfortunately, but chorus, phaser/flanger and distortion effects) and 512 locations for patch storage, and you've got a pretty capable polyphonic board. And you can route external signals into the Ion to boot!
No slight on the Voyager here, but the comparison really isn't a fair one. The Voyager is monophonic, where the Ion has 8 voices. The Voyager is true analog, where the Ion is virtual analog, albeit very good virtual analog. The Voyager is a seriously well-built machine using high-quality parts in an attractive real wood grain case designed for the ages (think 'Porsche' and $$$). The Ion is well-built and represents a good value, with the quality of the components on-par with the price (think 'Hyundai' and $).
That said, there have been some quality problems reported with the Ion. Although mine hasn't been a problem, others in the Yahoo Groups Ion forum have reported issues. It's hard to tell how many people have been affected. The last word from Alesis was that there was a bad batch of parts in earlier units. If you were to purchase an Ion, I'd suggest getting a new unit made recently (say April, 2004 or later), and steer clear of units on eBay. I bought my Ion in September, 2003 and haven't had any problems (knock wood).
Actually, you couldn't go wrong with either board. Or do what I did - get both!
Greg
PS - Putting the Voyager oscillators through the various Ion filters and effects creates some pretty wild sounds!
As a fortunate owner of both an Ion and a Voyager, I can say that both boards are excellent at what they do. While the Ion can do convincing Minimoog imitations, IMHO (I'll leave the discussion on dead-on accuracy to others here), it also has filters modelled on the ARP, Boss TB-303, Roland Jupiter, Oberheim and others - 18 filter types in total. This gives the Ion fantastic sonic flexibility. Add to that two filters per voice (each being any of the 18 types in either serial or parallel), an arpeggiator, a vocoder, an effects section (no reverb, unfortunately, but chorus, phaser/flanger and distortion effects) and 512 locations for patch storage, and you've got a pretty capable polyphonic board. And you can route external signals into the Ion to boot!
No slight on the Voyager here, but the comparison really isn't a fair one. The Voyager is monophonic, where the Ion has 8 voices. The Voyager is true analog, where the Ion is virtual analog, albeit very good virtual analog. The Voyager is a seriously well-built machine using high-quality parts in an attractive real wood grain case designed for the ages (think 'Porsche' and $$$). The Ion is well-built and represents a good value, with the quality of the components on-par with the price (think 'Hyundai' and $).
That said, there have been some quality problems reported with the Ion. Although mine hasn't been a problem, others in the Yahoo Groups Ion forum have reported issues. It's hard to tell how many people have been affected. The last word from Alesis was that there was a bad batch of parts in earlier units. If you were to purchase an Ion, I'd suggest getting a new unit made recently (say April, 2004 or later), and steer clear of units on eBay. I bought my Ion in September, 2003 and haven't had any problems (knock wood).
Actually, you couldn't go wrong with either board. Or do what I did - get both!
Greg
PS - Putting the Voyager oscillators through the various Ion filters and effects creates some pretty wild sounds!