LP filter brightness, adjusted on stage what about tribute?

goldphinga · Post by **goldphinga** » Wed May 16, 2007 8:38 am

Just been reading the pdf off the sos review with Cyrils comments and noted that he mentioned that the stage has been given a brighter sound to sound more like the minimoog. Can this be acheived on the stage? If its not to do with RAC i presume that it can as the te has more internal adjustment possibilities.

So, is there a way to do this on the stage? Ive always been after that extra bit of top end sizzle!

Cheers

electrical_engineer_gEEk · Post by **electrical_engineer_gEEk** » Wed May 16, 2007 9:20 am

can you post that link? i'd like to read it.
Thanks!

goldphinga · Post by **goldphinga** » Wed May 16, 2007 11:00 am

http://moogmusic.com/detail.php?product ... d=168#page

download the pdf and see Cyril's comments annotated...

electrical_engineer_gEEk · Post by **electrical_engineer_gEEk** » Wed May 16, 2007 11:35 am

hmmm...interesting, i hadn't heard about this difference.
I've never owned a minimoog so i guess i can't really compare but my Tribute sound pretty darn good....

I guess this is a question for Amos, what exactly changed? my guess is probably a resistor value or something on the OSCs which isn't really a trimpot

goldphinga · Post by **goldphinga** » Wed May 16, 2007 1:55 pm

Well as a mini and source user the Lp can nail 99% of those old moog sounds. However one thing that can be said of the LP and voyager is that there is a real high end sizzle that they dont have which means they can get lost a little in a dense mix.

Its great that this has been addressed but i would really consider selling my TE and replace it with a stage to have that extra 1% in the high end. Its a really important part of the sound. At the mo i boost my eq at around 10-15 k to compensate.

If it is a hardware adjustment then id like to know if i can do the mod myself once the te is out of warranty in august.If its software then i presume we te owners should get an update!

Once again thanks to Moog for pushing the LP forward and listening to their customers.

rachel · Post by **rachel** » Thu May 17, 2007 11:09 am

I didn't know the stage had MIDI volume control. I was hoping we'd get that in the Tribue
as well.

rachel

goldphinga · Post by **goldphinga** » Fri May 18, 2007 8:36 pm

Id really like to hear from Moog if the TE can be brightened up in the top end by a software/hardware mod?

kybernaut_01 · Post by **kybernaut_01** » Sun May 20, 2007 12:14 pm

goldphinga wrote:Id really like to hear from Moog if the TE can be brightened up in the top end by a software/hardware mod?

Hello,

although I do not have a direct answer to your question, I can add some observations that I made on my brand new LP stage.

I also read the PDF remarks in the SoS review very attentively, because I want to use the LP stage mainly for classic Mini sounds. While I really like the LP so far, I'm a bit disappointed with it as a Mini replacement. The overall sound of the LP stage is not noticable brighter than that of the LP Tribute, as far as I remember (I played the TE on Frankfurt Musikmesse, I have no direct comparison).

On the LP Stage , there seem to be two things going on concerning the brighness of the instrument:

1) The filter still takes away some (more or less audible) overtones from the oscillators, even when the Cutoff is at 100% and the KB Amount is at 0% (Listen to "LP_stage_almost_open.wav").

Only if the EG amount AND the Sustain of the filter EG is risen, the filter lets the overtones through.

2) But even then, the oscillators are still not very bright (Listen to "LP_stage_fully_open.wav").

For example, there is quite a difference to the oscs of the Creamware Minimax (sorry, I have no original Minimoog at hand). Listen to "Minimax_fully_open.wav".

All three sound samples can be downloaded here:

http://home.arcor.de/kybernaut_01/Moog_ ... amples.zip

While the modulation depth of the filter cutoff can most certainly affected with a firmware update, I doubt the raw oscillator sound can be changed this easy...

cheers,
kybernaut_01

doctorno · Post by **doctorno** » Sun May 20, 2007 11:29 pm

How on earth can you compare a virtual analogue synthesizer to the Moog LP? The reason that the Creamware Minimax sounds "brighter" is that it is not an analogue synth. The "oscillators" of the Minimax sound thin and unnatural compared to those of the LP ... "Brighter"? Maybe ... but this is not a sign of high quality at all.

kybernaut_01 · Post by **kybernaut_01** » Mon May 21, 2007 1:33 am

doctorno wrote:How on earth can you compare a virtual analogue synthesizer to the Moog LP? The reason that the Creamware Minimax sounds "brighter" is that it is not an analogue synth. The "oscillators" of the Minimax sound thin and unnatural compared to those of the LP ... "Brighter"? Maybe ... but this is not a sign of high quality at all.

I knew that someone would come up with this... But a analog vs. digital debate was not my point. Maybe you should re-read.

doctorno · Post by **doctorno** » Mon May 21, 2007 8:53 am

kybernaut_01 wrote:But a analog vs. digital debate was not my point. Maybe you should re-read.

I know that this was not your point, but you seem to be unaware of the fact that a digital "oscillator" adds some unnatural "brightness" (this is not exactly the right word - but I am not a native speaker) that no analogue oscillator has. Therefore you cannot compare the Minimax to the LP. You could only compare a Minimoog to the LP - and if you do this you will probably find out, that the brightness you are missing when you use the Moog LP has nothing to do with its oscillators but only with its filter.

kybernaut_01 · Post by **kybernaut_01** » Mon May 21, 2007 4:13 pm

doctorno, when you read around here in these (and in other) forums, you will see that it is already a known fact that the oscs in the new Moogs (Voyager, LP ) have a darker sound than the vintage Moog synths (Minimoog). This was also mentioned in the SoS review.

See: http://www.moogmusic.com/manuals/SOS%20 ... arkup).pdf

This thread is about comments about this review by Moog rep Cyril Lance. He writes: "The sound of the STAGE edition of the LITTLE PHATTY has been brightened up a bit, enabling more of the typical minimoog square and sawtooth waveforms."

So this is not about IF the LP is less bright than a Mini, but HOW MUCH has been changed in the Stage Edition (and if these changes can be made to the TE, too).

doctorno · Post by **doctorno** » Mon May 21, 2007 5:57 pm

Thanks for the advice, I have read all this, but I do not agree. I doubt that it is the oscillator that sounds that different in the Moog LP and the Minimoog. I am almost certain that it is the filter. And the only way you could find out more about that was if you would compare the waveforms of the Oscs directly (not from the audio output of the LP, where the signal has already passed the filter). Above all the fact remains that a comparison with a VA synth says nothing about the LP´s sound at all.

goldphinga · Post by **goldphinga** » Mon May 21, 2007 6:02 pm

yep, mine was a simple question, so let me ask again.

can the TE be adjusted a la the stage ed to give it a brighter, more minimoog like sound?

thank you

Jazzpunk · Post by **Jazzpunk** » Mon May 21, 2007 8:01 pm

I'm still waiting to get a response from Moog about my inquiry regarding the 2nd mod destination being offered as a paid upgrade for TE owners. Maybe we'll get an answer to both questions on this thread.

Moog Music Forum

LP filter brightness, adjusted on stage what about tribute?

LP filter brightness, adjusted on stage what about tribute?

attn Amos!