Any Other Source Lovers?
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HowIMadeMyMillions
- Posts: 107
- Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 4:21 pm
- Location: Canada
Any Other Source Lovers?
I've had a chance to play almost every type of vintage moog and for some reason I couldn't live without The Source's McDonald's milkshake paneling and fat ass control wheel. Mini and liberation aside, the Source is one of my favorites. Anyone else agree?
I just finished repairng a broken Source I bought a few weks ago, its in excelent condition it just had some power supply problems. Tonight was my first chance to play it & it is one of my favorites now, I reprogrammed all the patches from the manual (all of the patches were empty when I got it) & I have made a few of my own & have had some fun with the sequencer & arppegiator. I have a Micromoog & a Prodigy too, but I really like The Source. That control wheel feels like the spinner on an arcade game, realy heavy duty compared to the ones on Roland Alpha Junos & stuff. Any one know where to get any ov the patch tapes? I saw a catalog that had Source patch tapse from Devo & other 80s artists?
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Will Usher
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 6:37 pm
I just bought a Moog "The Source" from the States (via eBay), and I am one happy bunny!
My favourite sound is achieved with setting the Interval to 14 or 9 for some great fat almost-pad sounds - great fun.
The LFO on square wave can create some great effects, and the bass gets REALLY phat very easily. It looks great, is awesomed fun to use and I imagine it will fit into mixeds pretty easily too.
It's very easy to get some pretty shocking speaker movements out of this thing too! Small interval offsets of the two oscillators will create a beat-frequency of extreme LF - I need a HPF now!
A question... Is it possible to use say, a minidisc to record patches to?
My favourite sound is achieved with setting the Interval to 14 or 9 for some great fat almost-pad sounds - great fun.
The LFO on square wave can create some great effects, and the bass gets REALLY phat very easily. It looks great, is awesomed fun to use and I imagine it will fit into mixeds pretty easily too.
It's very easy to get some pretty shocking speaker movements out of this thing too! Small interval offsets of the two oscillators will create a beat-frequency of extreme LF - I need a HPF now!
A question... Is it possible to use say, a minidisc to record patches to?
I had a mini in the 70's and only once got to use The Source. I did enjoy it and am hoping to buy on in the near future. The one I tried had a computer kybd installed in it if I remember correctly, didn't look as good as the ones that hadn't been modified but sounded fantastic.
Well just bought one tonight (June 21st), I should have it in about 1 week so will report back on it then.
Well just bought one tonight (June 21st), I should have it in about 1 week so will report back on it then.
Moog Source value?
I have a Moog Source in excellent condition, clean as a whistle. It works great. I'm just curious what its actually worth? No, I don't intend to sell it, but when I DIE, I'll make sure my family has an idea of what its worth so when they put it on EBAY, they'll know where to set the reserve. Anyone have more of a clue than me.
Thanks,
Mike
Thanks,
Mike
"evolving" back to the Source
A few people on line have said that the Source is just a simulated Mini. I find that hard to believe, considering it was built with virtually the same oscillators.
One thing I'd like to ask that I haven't paid attention to is a ring modulator. Is there one in the Source? I know there isn't one in the Minimoog D.
Also, does it have a tuning control for osc. B? And, are those membrane switches really such a gamble? I'm in contact with a bunch of people who use Roland JX synths that have the same switches, and they haven't given out, yet.
One thing I'd like to ask that I haven't paid attention to is a ring modulator. Is there one in the Source? I know there isn't one in the Minimoog D.
Also, does it have a tuning control for osc. B? And, are those membrane switches really such a gamble? I'm in contact with a bunch of people who use Roland JX synths that have the same switches, and they haven't given out, yet.
"The greatest thing we ever have is the will to survive," - Eric Benjamin Gordon, 2001
Thank you Lord for Doctor Robert Moog!
http://www.ericbenjamingordon.com
http://www.myspace.com/ericbenjamingordon
http://cdbaby.com/cd/ebgordon
Thank you Lord for Doctor Robert Moog!
http://www.ericbenjamingordon.com
http://www.myspace.com/ericbenjamingordon
http://cdbaby.com/cd/ebgordon
Source questions....................
The Source sounds just like a Mini. I previously owned several Model D's and the reason I bought the Source (new) is its fully programmable and has on board memory for storing patches. Great for live performance for that reason alone. It doesn't have ring modulation, but I really don't care. (There is ring modulation on other boards I have and I don't use it very much). It sounds great, can be placed in a multiple KB stand arrangement without taking up all the space of a Mini. I don't know that the membrane controls would pose a problem. I never had any trouble with it, but I guess if/when I do, then I'll know! I love the sample and hold feature on it. I use it for a filter patch on an old Atlanta Rthymn Section song called "Alien" and I have a great space sound in the background going on and bring it in and out with a volume pedal. Very cool. In many ways this synth is an improvement over the orginal mini. There's one Incremental Control Pot with a digital read out for more precise adjustments of any of the paramenters. Yes, you can detune OCS II, and Sync, like on a mini. Portamento (Glide) is neat too.
Mike T.
Mike T.
There's nothing "simulated" with The Source. What you get is a slightly scaled down version of the minimoog in terms of functions but there are also many functions on The Source that are not found on the earlier minimoog.
On The Source you have slightly less audio range on the Oscillators, they only go down to 16' and only up to 8' (the minimoog goes low, down to 32' and up to 2') but you can use the "Interval" control to lower or raise an Oscillator by another 12 semitones (this control is primary to tune the 2 oscillators).
The Source has true variable pulse width modulation but only has sawtooth (descending shape) and triangle waves . . the minimoog has 3 fixed square wave width positions but has an extra inbetween triangle/sawtooth waveshape, also the sawtooth is ascending in shape.
The Source only has two oscillators but it has a seperate dedicated LFO which can modulate the Oscillators, the filter or both and has dedicated triangle and square waves. On the minimoog the third oscillator has to be stolen from the audio mix to be used as a modulating oscillator.
The Source can hard sync both oscillators for truly cutting solo sounds . . this is a mod on the minimoog.
In the mixer section The Source does not have an audio in to the filter, so external instruments can not be fed through the moog filter as they can on the minimoog . . . although there is a modification to do this available on the web somewhere.
The Source has full ADSR parameters for both the filter envelope and the VCA envelope, compared with the mini's limited release system (where the release is set at the same value as the decay if a dedicated "release" switch is set).
OK . . . here are some big points about The Source.
Sounds can be saved and recalled, the encore midi kit updates this from the standard 16 patches to 256 user patches (twice as much as the Voyager!).
Although the keyboard is shorter (3 octaves) The Source has a +1 octave transpose button like the memorymoog, effectively making the keyboard 4 octaves in length. This can also be used to help out the oscillators lower footage range.
Then there's the dual Sequencers and very interesting arpegiator (slightly hard to manage).
What it doesn't have that the mini has :- headphone out and output kill switch (no nead as you can call up your saved patches, you don't have to manually twaek between songs). A choice of noise . . . just the one which is PINK, and an A440 tune-up pitch . . . the tuning is done digitally.
All in all I like The Source . . . probably more then my Mini for ease of use . . the sound is very close to a Mini's but it still maintains it's own character. Of all the other moogs this one for me is the best and i have owned them all.
The Mini still wins hands down on grunt but the Source gives it a run for it's money (more so then a Prodigy or Multimoog). Some people say it is the only other moog to do a Taurus pedal sound, so with an encore midi kit and a set of midi bass pedals you are laughing.
With regards to robustness, I have always found it to be pretty strong. If you get a later model you will notice 4 little screws either side of the keyboard holding down the aluminium top panel . . . earlier models did not have these and tended to buckle after a while.
The membrane can wear out, mine hasn't but then I am always quite carefull and light fingered - if you spot one with the coloured legends on the panel wearing off then there's a good chance you'll have non-functioning switches. I don't know of anyone who has re-issued the membrane, which is a shame, as you can buy WASP and EMS SYNTHI AKS membrane keyboards new.
Mal
On The Source you have slightly less audio range on the Oscillators, they only go down to 16' and only up to 8' (the minimoog goes low, down to 32' and up to 2') but you can use the "Interval" control to lower or raise an Oscillator by another 12 semitones (this control is primary to tune the 2 oscillators).
The Source has true variable pulse width modulation but only has sawtooth (descending shape) and triangle waves . . the minimoog has 3 fixed square wave width positions but has an extra inbetween triangle/sawtooth waveshape, also the sawtooth is ascending in shape.
The Source only has two oscillators but it has a seperate dedicated LFO which can modulate the Oscillators, the filter or both and has dedicated triangle and square waves. On the minimoog the third oscillator has to be stolen from the audio mix to be used as a modulating oscillator.
The Source can hard sync both oscillators for truly cutting solo sounds . . this is a mod on the minimoog.
In the mixer section The Source does not have an audio in to the filter, so external instruments can not be fed through the moog filter as they can on the minimoog . . . although there is a modification to do this available on the web somewhere.
The Source has full ADSR parameters for both the filter envelope and the VCA envelope, compared with the mini's limited release system (where the release is set at the same value as the decay if a dedicated "release" switch is set).
OK . . . here are some big points about The Source.
Sounds can be saved and recalled, the encore midi kit updates this from the standard 16 patches to 256 user patches (twice as much as the Voyager!).
Although the keyboard is shorter (3 octaves) The Source has a +1 octave transpose button like the memorymoog, effectively making the keyboard 4 octaves in length. This can also be used to help out the oscillators lower footage range.
Then there's the dual Sequencers and very interesting arpegiator (slightly hard to manage).
What it doesn't have that the mini has :- headphone out and output kill switch (no nead as you can call up your saved patches, you don't have to manually twaek between songs). A choice of noise . . . just the one which is PINK, and an A440 tune-up pitch . . . the tuning is done digitally.
All in all I like The Source . . . probably more then my Mini for ease of use . . the sound is very close to a Mini's but it still maintains it's own character. Of all the other moogs this one for me is the best and i have owned them all.
The Mini still wins hands down on grunt but the Source gives it a run for it's money (more so then a Prodigy or Multimoog). Some people say it is the only other moog to do a Taurus pedal sound, so with an encore midi kit and a set of midi bass pedals you are laughing.
With regards to robustness, I have always found it to be pretty strong. If you get a later model you will notice 4 little screws either side of the keyboard holding down the aluminium top panel . . . earlier models did not have these and tended to buckle after a while.
The membrane can wear out, mine hasn't but then I am always quite carefull and light fingered - if you spot one with the coloured legends on the panel wearing off then there's a good chance you'll have non-functioning switches. I don't know of anyone who has re-issued the membrane, which is a shame, as you can buy WASP and EMS SYNTHI AKS membrane keyboards new.
Mal
Source features.....................
Mee3d:
I have one of the "later' model Source. (It has the four screws on the top to secure the top as you mentioned). By the way, my Source DOES have 32' footage on both Oscillators, then 16' and 8'. You're correct that it doesn't have a 2' footage on it. Mine has Octave "0" and +1 so I never found the footage on this board to be limiting. I also have a set of Moog Taurus I bass pedals and the Source has a patch that's a dead ringer for the Taurus. What's more, its got the balls to produce that sound. I really can't A/B the Source to the Model D anymore, I sold off my Model D's YEARS ago. I can only remember that when I had both boards, I did a comparison of them and felt that the Source was better for live because it had patch storage. I didn't feel it was in any way limiting compared to the Model D. As far as the mini having more grunt than the Source, I don't recall any real difference when I played both at the same time side by side. But that was so many years ago, who knows. I just looked at the Source as an up to date Mini with the features I really needed for live use.
It still plays great and apparently got "light use" becasue the membrane switches show NO signs on ware and everything works great. I still turn it on an play it occasionally, and it sounds as good as it always did.
Cheers,
Mike T.
I have one of the "later' model Source. (It has the four screws on the top to secure the top as you mentioned). By the way, my Source DOES have 32' footage on both Oscillators, then 16' and 8'. You're correct that it doesn't have a 2' footage on it. Mine has Octave "0" and +1 so I never found the footage on this board to be limiting. I also have a set of Moog Taurus I bass pedals and the Source has a patch that's a dead ringer for the Taurus. What's more, its got the balls to produce that sound. I really can't A/B the Source to the Model D anymore, I sold off my Model D's YEARS ago. I can only remember that when I had both boards, I did a comparison of them and felt that the Source was better for live because it had patch storage. I didn't feel it was in any way limiting compared to the Model D. As far as the mini having more grunt than the Source, I don't recall any real difference when I played both at the same time side by side. But that was so many years ago, who knows. I just looked at the Source as an up to date Mini with the features I really needed for live use.
It still plays great and apparently got "light use" becasue the membrane switches show NO signs on ware and everything works great. I still turn it on an play it occasionally, and it sounds as good as it always did.
Cheers,
Mike T.
Not unlike and Odyssey
Thanks Mike and Mal (who has been a valuble "source" of sound info on this subject, before).
From what you're saying, the Source is not unlike an ARP Odyssey, in terms of its synth architecture. Not immediately synonymous, but bearing many resemblances to the Odyssey in herent in the Prophet 5.
From what you're saying, the Source is not unlike an ARP Odyssey, in terms of its synth architecture. Not immediately synonymous, but bearing many resemblances to the Odyssey in herent in the Prophet 5.
"The greatest thing we ever have is the will to survive," - Eric Benjamin Gordon, 2001
Thank you Lord for Doctor Robert Moog!
http://www.ericbenjamingordon.com
http://www.myspace.com/ericbenjamingordon
http://cdbaby.com/cd/ebgordon
Thank you Lord for Doctor Robert Moog!
http://www.ericbenjamingordon.com
http://www.myspace.com/ericbenjamingordon
http://cdbaby.com/cd/ebgordon
Mike
Your'e right! it does go down to 32' . . . that's me typing away not looking at my Source which is just behind me.
I'm lucky to still have a Minimoog, Memorymoog, OPUS 3, Source and Voyager SE (having recently sold my Prodigy, Rogue and Multimoog). Doing an A/B comparison to the Mini, the Source sounds way more clean, more polished. It still has the balls but somehow it's more refined . . . a little like the Voyager is.
I would say that the present Mini that I own has a Rivera Music Service "soft clip distortion" upgrade so it kicks serious grunge butt.
The Taurus is one moog that I have never owned (along with a Liberation), I have enough trouble getting my left hand to do what I want it to do to worry about my feet!!!
Mal
Your'e right! it does go down to 32' . . . that's me typing away not looking at my Source which is just behind me.
I'm lucky to still have a Minimoog, Memorymoog, OPUS 3, Source and Voyager SE (having recently sold my Prodigy, Rogue and Multimoog). Doing an A/B comparison to the Mini, the Source sounds way more clean, more polished. It still has the balls but somehow it's more refined . . . a little like the Voyager is.
I would say that the present Mini that I own has a Rivera Music Service "soft clip distortion" upgrade so it kicks serious grunge butt.
The Taurus is one moog that I have never owned (along with a Liberation), I have enough trouble getting my left hand to do what I want it to do to worry about my feet!!!
Mal
This is a pic of my Source/Taurus II controller set that I brought to AHMW2003. The pedals have a factory mod from the 70s Moog Music (not the current company) that let you play the Source from the pedals. Yes the Source has CV/Trigger I/O jacks but you can't get multiple trigger, the CV is not processed by glide and the filter keyboard tracking is fixed at 100% when using the I/O jacks. This mod corrects that. It also has the Encore MIDI Interface installed, a great accessory.
This setup can produce the big Taurus I pedal sounds, and I get five keys and 252 more programs over the original.
AHMW is held annually in Indiana and is a great time - I encourage you guys to visit, I try to get there every year. Lots of vintage analogs and some new goodies too. Modulars have been making a bigger presence each year, even Buchlas and Serge (have yet to have a Moog modular appear). Do a Google search on AHMW and look at the oodles of analog goodies that you can get hands-on playtime with.
This setup can produce the big Taurus I pedal sounds, and I get five keys and 252 more programs over the original.
AHMW is held annually in Indiana and is a great time - I encourage you guys to visit, I try to get there every year. Lots of vintage analogs and some new goodies too. Modulars have been making a bigger presence each year, even Buchlas and Serge (have yet to have a Moog modular appear). Do a Google search on AHMW and look at the oodles of analog goodies that you can get hands-on playtime with.
Got to love those "old" Moog synths
Its great chatting about the Moog stuff, as well as some of the other Vintage stuff. In addition to my two MOOG's, I have an Arp Odyssey, later "Orange/black" model as well as on Arp Omni II, and a Prophet 5, Rev 3.2. I have to say that each one of my boards has its own sound as well as character. I always thought the Prophet had a similar front panel appearance as well as "Wood on black" design as Moog, and I took to it immediately after owning a few Model D's. The Arp Odessey has all sliders instead of POT knobs, and sounds a lot different than the Moog or the Prophet 5. I also owned 3 different Oberheims in the late seventies, but along with my last Model D, had to sell them off because of owing the IRS a bunch of money. Too bad, I would have liked to have kept at least one of the Oberheims and a Mini. I thought the Arp Odessey had the best white noise, like the Arp 2600, and could create some great wind and ocean sound effects with very little effort. Also had a nice hollow sounding lead synth sound that was very different from the previous other synths I mentioned. At least that was how I justified spending every dime I ever made (and then some) buying synths! I saw Edgar Winter do "Frankenstein" live in the seventies and he had an earilier Arp Odyssey than the one I have. He did all the synth and sound effects LIVE and it sounded incredible. Probably one of the main reasons I bought an Odyssey in the first place! As if I ever needed excuses!
The picture of the Moog Source and Taurus I bass pedals is awesome. That Source is in absolute pristene condition. WOW. My Source is in great shape, hardly a scratch on it. I kept all my instruments in flight cases, but I played full time on the road for a number of years and invariably, you pick up a few scrathes here and there. But judging by that picture, that instrument is PERFECT. Take good care of it, they don't make them anymore! What amazes me is that with the exception of the Omni, they all still work fine! Its nice to be able to plug them in and just play around with them. I was cleaning my Source and Odessey today, and when I picked up the Odessey I was impressed by how heavy that thing is compared to the new VA's and "modern" boards. It's nice to have a selection of the old stuff and the new stuff in my music room. It keeps me out of trouble, primarily because I don't have any money left!
Past girlfriends never understood GAS. Maybe that's why I never married any of them! 
Cheers guys!
Mike
The picture of the Moog Source and Taurus I bass pedals is awesome. That Source is in absolute pristene condition. WOW. My Source is in great shape, hardly a scratch on it. I kept all my instruments in flight cases, but I played full time on the road for a number of years and invariably, you pick up a few scrathes here and there. But judging by that picture, that instrument is PERFECT. Take good care of it, they don't make them anymore! What amazes me is that with the exception of the Omni, they all still work fine! Its nice to be able to plug them in and just play around with them. I was cleaning my Source and Odessey today, and when I picked up the Odessey I was impressed by how heavy that thing is compared to the new VA's and "modern" boards. It's nice to have a selection of the old stuff and the new stuff in my music room. It keeps me out of trouble, primarily because I don't have any money left!
Past girlfriends never understood GAS. Maybe that's why I never married any of them! Cheers guys!
Mike