Tell us about your rig

OysterRock · Post by **OysterRock** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 1:18 am

I would love to have a Solina, but they seem to be getting more and more expensive lately.

eric coleridge · Post by **eric coleridge** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:01 am

analogbass wrote:Polymoog's best used as a coffee table, it represented the dark ages before good polyphonics.

We're always disagreeing in these forums, but I'm compelled to offer the counter argument here: The PolyMoog has such an incredible and unique sound that, to me, it would be well worth the trouble for upkeep.

Even though it shares a universal Filter and Envelope, it also has individual filters and envelopes on every single key (which is a singular feature that you probably can't find on any other synth)-- which give each key a special character and make the overall sound very rich and very "real" sounding. This, I think, is one reason that it has such a unique and wonderful character in the world of poly-synths. The string sounds and vox humana are dazzlingly beautiful patches which defy reproduction or emulation on any other polysynths-- that I've heard at least.

Plus, the upkeep issues are not unique to the PolyMoog. You have similar complicated problems on virtually all of the polys from this and even later years (CS80, MemoryMoog, Prophet 5, etc.).

To me, the PolyMoog is a wonderful instrumet and actaully kind of a bargin lately (under $1000...)

eric coleridge · Post by **eric coleridge** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:09 am

museslave wrote:
I have often been a defender of string synths. They are often wonderful and inexpensive opportunities for polyphonic sound.

I love string synths too. I own an Omni I at the moment, and I like it, but I don't think it has anywhere near as rich and deep a sound as the PolyMoog.

I've never heard in person the Korg you mentioned.

I've read that the PolyMoog actually has some envelope and filter(maybe 1-pole) per key, notwithstanding the "universal" Envelope, LPF, and Resonator. Do you know anything about this? I believe these per key env/filters are some of what is used to articulate the presets.

MC · Post by MC » Sat Sep 16, 2006 9:05 am

Each "Polycom" custom IC on each key of the Polymoog contains a 2 pole 12dB transistor ladder Moog "brightness" filter (but no resonance, keyboard tracking, or modulation of any kind), EG, two VCAs, PWM, and wavemixer. There is no control of the "brightness" filter other than the fixed settings with each preset, although the prototypes did have a "brightness" slidepot control.

There are three "universal" filters. A proper 24dB Moog filter (which doesn't sound that great), a fixed format filter (for each preset), and a "resonator" which is just a three band 1 pole 6dB filter with LP/BP/HP configurations and frequency/emphasis/level controls.

The biggest shortcomings of the TOS architecture of the Polymoog is lack of hard sync (it has soft sync which is not very useful) and no way to impart voice modulation on the oscillators or the filters. The latter feature is prevalent on proper polysynths which opens up a world of colors, that's why the Polymoog has a limited palette of sounds.

museslave · Post by **museslave** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:07 pm

eric coleridge wrote:I've never heard in person the Korg you mentioned.

The Korg PS-3100!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoOlZeD2S2M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ITdpgrcbxI
Well, I just happened to have made a couple videos of mine. Have a look!
: )

eric coleridge wrote:I've read that the PolyMoog actually has some envelope and filter(maybe 1-pole) per key, notwithstanding the "universal" Envelope, LPF, and Resonator. Do you know anything about this? I believe these per key env/filters are some of what is used to articulate the presets.

I had only heard that, too... luckily MC tells us!

museslave · Post by **museslave** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:34 pm

MC wrote:Each "Polycom" custom IC on each key of the Polymoog contains a 2 pole 12dB transistor ladder Moog "brightness" filter (but no resonance, keyboard tracking, or modulation of any kind), EG, two VCAs, PWM, and wavemixer. There is no control of the "brightness" filter other than the fixed settings with each preset, although the prototypes did have a "brightness" slidepot control.

Thank you for this information!

MC wrote:There are three "universal" filters. A proper 24dB Moog filter (which doesn't sound that great), a fixed format filter (for each preset), and a "resonator" which is just a three band 1 pole 6dB filter with LP/BP/HP configurations and frequency/emphasis/level controls.

Having three universal filters is an interesting idea. The Polymoog really is unique.
The Korg PS-3100, the only synth anything like the Polymoog, has no universal filter, but rather 12 dB/oct resonant filters for every key (in addition to a VCA and ENV per key). While it does have a single universal envelope (in addition to the ENV per key), it would be cool if it had a universal filter.
The PS-3100 has a resonator, also three band... however it is voltage controlled. Isn't the Polymoog's resonator voltage controlled? The resonator is the coolest feature of the PS-3100... and if the Polymoog's resonator is anything like it, it can't be easily dismissed!

MC wrote:The biggest shortcomings of the TOS architecture of the Polymoog is lack of hard sync (it has soft sync which is not very useful) and no way to impart voice modulation on the oscillators or the filters. The latter feature is prevalent on proper polysynths which opens up a world of colors, that's why the Polymoog has a limited palette of sounds.

I protest the term "proper." A polyphonic synthesizer (like those I think you are referring to) is hardly "proper" if you can only play a few notes at a time. ; )
Anyway... sync is a nice function, but I wouldn't say it was a requirement for a decent polysynth. The CS-80 doesn't have sync.
The Resonator (especially if it is voltage controlled) is a VERY interesting and useful , if totally underutilized, function.

MC · Post by MC » Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:17 am

museslave wrote: The PS-3100 has a resonator, also three band... however it is voltage controlled. Isn't the Polymoog's resonator voltage controlled? The resonator is the coolest feature of the PS-3100... and if the Polymoog's resonator is anything like it, it can't be easily dismissed!

Polymoog resonator is not voltage controlled, unfortunately.

And contrary to popular myth, the Polymoog resonator is NOT the same circuit as the rackmount three band parametric EQ. Totally different circuits.

museslave · Post by **museslave** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 2:08 pm

I am sorry to say that my desire for a Polymoog has been diminished by this conversation, MC.
I hope you're happy!!! ; )

I am, however, slightly gladdened that the PS-3100 exceeds the features of the Polymoog. ; ) (at least in some respects!)

eric coleridge · Post by **eric coleridge** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 6:19 pm

museslave wrote:
eric coleridge wrote:I've never heard in person the Korg you mentioned.
The Korg PS-3100!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoOlZeD2S2M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ITdpgrcbxI
Well, I just happened to have made a couple videos of mine. Have a look!
: )

Oh, yes, I have seen your 3100 videos, which are really impressive. Thanks for posting them.
But, I thlought you were speaking earlier about the Korg Polyphonic Ensemble (I think the P-5 ??) ... one of those preset Korgs... I've read good and bad things about them.
But I'm always intereted in the various divide down ensemble string synths, because the best of them (polymoog and others), I find have a wonderful lush string or chorus sounds that can be hard to replicate on later polys. Sometimes, I think because of their reported shortcomings (universal filter and/or reliance on chorus and phaser effects), they can be uniquely suited to certain sounds. Plus, they're often very good bargins-- and if all you want is a great string synth or a vintage 70s poly sound(as oppossed to a more versatile, proper polysynth)-- they can be a great tool in an electronic studio. I have an Omni myself, but I'd trade it in in a second for a PolyMoog... maybe one day I will.

museslave · Post by **museslave** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:21 am

Oh, when I said P5, I was referring to the Prophet 5!

TheLustyGhost · Post by **TheLustyGhost** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:04 pm

My rig's in a state of flux right now, mainly since both of my good amps are in need of recaps and general tuneups, so right now everything's going through a single Mesa Boogie Studio 22 (less than ideal for sure, although it;'s great for recording some guitar stuff). Once all of the amps are back up, though, I will be using:

Guitar -
Parker Fly Deluxe -> modded Crybaby (bandwith resistor swapped for one of much higher value, making it VERY narrow) -> MXR Distortion+ -> '68 Sunn Solarus with replaced speakers (a 90 watt Celestion lifted out of a Mesa Boogie extension cab for midrange, 100 watt Carvin BR-1 for punch and bass response). Sometimes I put a Guyatone/Flip tube tremolo after the distortion, and sometime soon I'm going to build an Ampeg Scrambler clone.

Electronics -

MG-1 patched into the phono inputs an SK series Stanton DJ mixer. I'm using both outputs, with one patched to channel 1 of the mixer and one patched to channel 2. I used the phono inputs out of necessiy (the MG-1 outputs were not hot enough for the line input) but I am actually happy with the sound of the MG-1 through the RIAA curve filter - bigger bass, less harshness in the high end, perfect for the role it plays in this particular setup.
Channel 1 is an "effects channel" with the loop run as hot as I can get away with, and virtually no dry signal. Channel 2 is completely dry. This way the crossfader can be used to blend the wet and dry signals during performance.
The effects loop has two mid-80s digital delay rack units in series (a 2 second Digitech unit feeding into a 1 second MXR unit). These things are great, the only digital gear I regularly use. Both of them have a "sample and hold" mode that loops whatever is currently in the delay buffer, which cna then be detuned by twiddling the multiplier (delay time) control or completely mutilated by switching modes. Going from the delay mode into flange or chorus (whihc basically just cuts the delay buffer down by halves) gives you a makeshift wavetable oscilator. Feeding one into the other leads to all sorts of drones and pulses that aren't available from my beloved analog delays. Great for noise/psyche type stuff.

Lately I have also been feeding the output of an old, all tube Dynaco test tone generator, which has only stepped frequency control and produces all sorts of mathematically related scales (including one useable G pentatonic scale that sounds exactly like the flute part in "Dark River" by the often-terrible 70s band Jade Warrior). In the future I might add a Akai S-612 sampler to the mix, too. They are one of the crudest samplers I have ever seen (like a pro version of a Casio SK-1 more or less) and make great lo-fi digital loops and glitches.

It seems like most people don't have much respect for the MG-1's polyphony but I abolutely love it. Since the monosynth prioritizes the high note instead of the low note, you can play drones with the polyphony with your left hand using the polyphony and play a right-hand Moog lead over it with your right hand. It's like an electronic harmonium. The cheesyness of the polyphony mode has a charm all it's own, too, and I definitely plan on adding a dedicated output for it some day.

We haven't recorded anything with this rig yet, but once we have something good I'd be happy to post a link.

OysterRock · Post by **OysterRock** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:23 am

Just because I'm really bored right now (its tough being sick), I'm going to post this. This is an extensive list of all gear that I currently own or have ever owned. Gear that I currently own is in bold.

Keyboards:
- Fender Rhodes Stage 73 (wooden/plastic hammers, 1975)
- Hohner D6 Clavinet
- Moog Voyager AE #0380
- Fender Rhodes Stage 73 (plastic hammers, 1978)
- Wurlitzer 200A
- Hammond A100
- Hammond C3
- Hammond M2
- Hammond M111
- Korg MS2000
- Korg MS2000R
- Moog Micromoog
- Nord Electro 2 73
- Roland RD-600 Digital Piano
- Roland VK-7 Digital Organ
- Roland/Rhodes VK-1000 Digital Organ
- Yamaha Electone Organ (model unknown)
- Casio SK-1 Sampling Keyboard

Bass Guitars:
- Ernie Ball Musicman Stingray Bass
- Sammick (model unknown)

Guitars:
- Fender Stratocaster
- Acoustic classical guitar (unknown make)

Effects:
- Moogerfooger MF-101 Low-Pass Filter
- Moogerfooger MF-102 Ring Modulator
- Moogerfooger MF-103 12-Stage Phaser
- Moog EP-1 Expression Pedal
- Dunlop Bass Wah pedal
- DOD Bass Grunge
- DOD Envelop Filter/440
- Line 6 DL-4 Digital Delay
- Line 6 PODxt

Amplifiers/Speakers:
- Fender Twin Reverb
- Ampeg 4x10 Bass Cabinet
- Barbetta Sona 31c
- Hammond JR-20 Tone Cabinet
- Hartke 3500 Bass Amp
- Leslie 147

Samplers/Drum Machines/Sequencers:
- Akai MPC2000
- Akai S20
- Emu ESI4000
- Roland MC-303 Groovebox
- Roland MC-50 mkII

DJ Equipment:
- Technics SL1200mkII (x 2)
- Allen & Heath Xone:32 Professional DJ Mixer

Headphones:
- Stanton DJ Pro 3000

Mixers:
- Mackie 1604

Computer/Recording:
- Apple PowerBook G4, 1.33 GHz, 512MB RAM
- MOTU 828mkII Firewire 24/96 Audio/MIDI Interface
- Alesis 3630 Dual Channel Compressor Limiter (w/ Black Lion Audio Mod)
- Avalon U5 Mono Instrument & DI Preamplifier
- Moog Graphic Equalizer
- Behringer Patch Bay
- Teac A-4010S Reel-to-Reel (non-working)

Monitors:
- Tapco S5 by Mackie Active Studio Monitors
- Yamaha Subwoofer

Things I want:
- Philips Penncrest or Philicorda combo organ (Anyone have one?

)

latigid on · Post by **latigid on** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 4:14 pm

Hey Oyster -

My first bass was a Samick. When I got my EBMM Stingray I smashed it on stage...

Anyway, being a Moog-Dude, what do you think of the Dunlop Bass Wah? I've got an MF-101, DOD-25B, Digitec Bass Synth Wah, EHX Bass Balls, Electrix Filter Queen. Do I need another filter? Have you tried it on the Rhodes?

OysterRock · Post by **OysterRock** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 4:49 pm

latigid on wrote: My first bass was a Samick. When I got my EBMM Stingray I smashed it on stage...

Awesome. A fitting end. The Sammick was my first bass, too. Got it when I was 13 and proceeded to learn every Nirvana song (hey, what teenager of the 90s didn't love Nirvana?).

latigid on wrote: Anyway, being a Moog-Dude, what do you think of the Dunlop Bass Wah? I've got an MF-101, DOD-25B, Digitec Bass Synth Wah, EHX Bass Balls, Electrix Filter Queen. Do I need another filter? Have you tried it on the Rhodes?

I honestly haven't used the thing in years. I remember it sounds decent, pretty good with bass, great with clavinet (what wah doesn't), not so good with Rhodes. Since the bass wah is tailor for lower frequencies, it tended to make the Rhodes sound muddy. The best thing about it is the actual wah mechanisim. The wah effect is off until you move the wah, no stomp switch or anything. I don't know why more wah pedals aren't like this.

Oh yeah, and it has real shoddy construction. My battery cover has been broken for as long as I can remember.

You already seem to have your filter bases covered. I'd say its not going to ad much sonic possibilities to your arsenal that you don't already have.

I do recommend the DOD 440 envelope filter (escpecially the vintage one) for guitar or clavinet (not so good with bass considering its a bandpass filter). It is the most filthy, unpredictable filter I've used. If you find one cheap, pick it up.

moogerfooger · Post by **moogerfooger** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:45 pm

2 minis -jp8000 - m1 - TS12 - triton pro - tr rack - eps16 + -planet phatt
protools mix+ makie 8 bus yamy o1v mackie 1604 etc
play back = JBL 4412A's with JBL subs- rane Xover - QSC amps ,orban EQ not shown
guitars -- martin D28 - fender tele delux and strat - gibson es 335 / les paul std / L6
seagull 12 string EPS horizon bass other room has mid 60's slingerland maple drums with gretsch snare --gtr amps -67 black face bandmaster - powerchorus - line6 amp farm TDM -- theres more but you get the idea