104 vs hiwatt tape echo

talon · Post by **talon** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:58 pm

if you read the topic, you know my dilema.

i had a roland re-201 and it recently died on me, i still morn the loss.

i have a murf, and ringmod right now, and i am sure i will pick up more in the future..

i guess my main question is, what are you thoughts on these two items.. how well does the 104 work with the other moogers? the delay effects loop sounds great, but does it take or send any voltages or anything interesting?

i love how tape sounds, and how it gets really gritty, but i have not heard a 104 in person.. the prices are very similar.. what do you guys think?

Indeed · Post by **Indeed** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:55 pm

my echoplex keeps poopin out on me as well...I'm able to fix it, but its a whole ordeal everytime...also considering the 104...the sound clips on the site actually sound pretty hot...$700 bones though...ooooohhh....i'll prolly doit, I'm the kinda guy to say f*ck it when it comes to stuff like this...

MarkM · Post by **MarkM** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:59 pm

The 104 will receive CV on all it's parameters, but it sends none. It also has a loop out with gain control so that you can send the wet signal out and process it further and bring it back into the 104. You can also take just the wet signal and send it somewhere. It's quite a great tool.

eric coleridge · Post by **eric coleridge** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:43 pm

I've had a few tape delays and have found, to me, the Roland Space Echo has the best almost magical sound. I don't know what it is about those Space Echos (all except the last one, the 501-- Doesn't sound the same as earlier Space Echos), but whatever you run through them comes out the other end sounding amazing.

So, I haven't tried the Hi-Watt, but I wouldn't just assume that it sounds as good as the Roland.

From what I've heard from the Mooger Delay, it doesn't really sound like a tape delay. If you are looking for a tape delay sound, I would go with a Space Echo. If you find one in good condition, I've had good experiences with them. They're pretty reliable.

I'm sure the Mooger delay is a good option too, having CV and so on, but it's not a tape delay, and probably can't sound like one. It's also pretty expensive for what it does.

godzilla · Post by **godzilla** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:25 pm

never tried a tape delay b4 but the 104 is definitely a cool piece of gear, i just love scaling the amount of feedback (or other parameters) up and down the keyboard using your synths CV out.

i'd say it would be really good for you as it won't die on you and will work well with your other foogers, if you get the delay and a cp251 you'll be set.

talon · Post by **talon** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:51 am

thanks for the replies guys, i hate to sound noobish, but:

can you explain a bit about what i could do by sending CV to the 104.. and since i dont have a modular keyboard ATM, and would be using this in a guitar rig the only other things i could run into the 104 are a 102 and 105..

i just picked up the 102 yesterday and figured i could now justify posting on here with 2 of them... i have yet to run them both in my guitar rig, since it is as the practice space.

i am thinking about putting the murf stereo into ring mod carrier in and regular in.. and then maybe the lfo out into the murf lfo.. gonna do that this weekend.. not sure what to expect haha..

with the delay and a cp1 what options am i looking at?

the fact this thing will be reliable is almost enough to give up on the tape dream..

Indeed · Post by **Indeed** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 1:40 am

NOTHINGS LIKE TAPE. ITS NICE & NASTY, CRUNCHY & BEAUTIFULLY DISTORTED, WHEN THE SIGNAL OVERLOADS..THAT IS...I'M IN LOVE WITH IT. NEVER MESSED WITH A SPACE ECHO, BUT IM SURE ITS SIMILAR TO THE ECHOPLEX W/REGARD TO SOUND QUALITY. WAS THINKIN OF THE 104, BUT NOT SURE IF I WANT THE CLEANER SOUND. IT DOES SOUND REAL LOVELY, SURE ITS USEFUL,,,WE'LL SEE..

CTRLSHFT · Post by **CTRLSHFT** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 2:32 am

talon wrote:thanks for the replies guys, i hate to sound noobish, but:

can you explain a bit about what i could do by sending CV to the 104.. and since i dont have a modular keyboard ATM, and would be using this in a guitar rig the only other things i could run into the 104 are a 102 and 105..

i just picked up the 102 yesterday and figured i could now justify posting on here with 2 of them... i have yet to run them both in my guitar rig, since it is as the practice space.

i am thinking about putting the murf stereo into ring mod carrier in and regular in.. and then maybe the lfo out into the murf lfo.. gonna do that this weekend.. not sure what to expect haha..

with the delay and a cp1 what options am i looking at?

the fact this thing will be reliable is almost enough to give up on the tape dream..

the 104 has cv inputs for delay time (this is INSANELY FUN), feedback (cool also, not as dramatic an effect but versitile), and mix (wet/dry automation). with the 105 and a 104 you can get some really amazing sounds. if you slow down the rate a little bit on the murf and keep the delay time low on the 104; with the 102 you add cv functionality (as it has lfo out and the ring mod osc out), and the opportunity for some frightening sound effects.

what i really dig most about the 104 though is that it's a really hushed-down delay, really great in the sense of a delay you might hear in nature, e.g., a cave echo. with a low delay time and a healthy feedback setting you can even coax a pretty interesting REVERB sound out of it. modulating this effect with the CP-251's smooth-step S&H keeps it random enough to sound real. seriously, i was afraid of the cost at first too, but this ain't no deluxe memory man...it's way cooler. moog has a way of imparting their personality on everything in a very positive way, and the 104z/SD is no different!