Thanks Till,
This is a very powerful mod to the Prodigy that allows one of the Oscillators to Modulate the Filter providing ring mod sounds similar to the osc. modulation source on the MicroMoog. I can't find a web-link to the exact specs for this mod right now, so if you can provide more specific details it would be great.
I have seen this mod detailed before and I'm going to keep looking. But for any Prodigy owners, this is one of the most basic and extremely useful mods you can easily do to your Prodigy to open up alot of new sonic posibilities.
Prodigy/Rogue/Micro CV Modifications
-
eric coleridge
- Posts: 574
- Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:46 am
- Location: NYC
Prodigy Osc Modulation
Here is a link to the Prodigy Modification described above that allows Osc 2 to Modulate the Filter Frequency for moderate to extreme cross-mod/ring-mod type effects:
http://www.physicsenterprises.andrews.e ... rodmod.txt
The schematic is for a pot/knob that allows for attenuation of the modulation signal, but it could just as easily be a switch to turn the modulation off/on at full strength, similar to the "Osc. Mod." switch on a MicroMoog.
This modification, I would think, could just as easily be used in conjunction with a switching input jack on the back to allow any external signal to replace the Osc.2 signal and modulate the filter. In this case the new knob in the Filter Section would be dual function and could be labeled Osc./Ext.
http://www.physicsenterprises.andrews.e ... rodmod.txt
The schematic is for a pot/knob that allows for attenuation of the modulation signal, but it could just as easily be a switch to turn the modulation off/on at full strength, similar to the "Osc. Mod." switch on a MicroMoog.
This modification, I would think, could just as easily be used in conjunction with a switching input jack on the back to allow any external signal to replace the Osc.2 signal and modulate the filter. In this case the new knob in the Filter Section would be dual function and could be labeled Osc./Ext.
Eric,
I would add a buffer to an external input.
And maybe a little light bulb as on the minimoog for checking level and as protection against too high voltages feed in.
I would add a buffer to an external input.
And maybe a little light bulb as on the minimoog for checking level and as protection against too high voltages feed in.
keep on turning these Moog knobs
Prodigy * minimoog '79 * Voyager * MF102 * MF103 * MF104z * MP201 * Taurus 3 * Minitaur * Sub Phatty * MF105 * Minimoog 2017+ MUSE * One 16 (sold)
Prodigy * minimoog '79 * Voyager * MF102 * MF103 * MF104z * MP201 * Taurus 3 * Minitaur * Sub Phatty * MF105 * Minimoog 2017+ MUSE * One 16 (sold)
-
eric coleridge
- Posts: 574
- Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:46 am
- Location: NYC
Prodigy VCF Mod
Till,till wrote:Eric,
I would add a buffer to an external input.
And maybe a little light bulb as on the minimoog for checking level and as protection against too high voltages feed in.
Yeah, I was thinking about both, but I need advise. What kind of buffer would you use? Would a resistor be OK? Like a 10K resistor maybe? Or a diode maybe?
And how would the LED work? That would be great if it would light when the signal is overloading, but I don't know how to design it. I'm just getting started in modifications, so I'd love any advise you could give.
-
cheveux.boucles
- Posts: 88
- Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:54 pm
- Location: WNC
- Contact:
-
eric coleridge
- Posts: 574
- Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:46 am
- Location: NYC
Prodigy FM Mod
I don't know how to post sounds or pictures, but I'd be happy to if you can tell me.
But the sound that will result from the mod can be very close to a ring mod type sound, like the sound of the MF102. When the resonance is down on the filter and osc 2 is being used for modulation, it gives the filter an extra burbling sound. When the resonance is high-and the filter is self oscillating- and you modulate it with osc 2, it sounds like two oscillators cross modulated, or ring modulating. This sound can be made on alot of synths such as the MicroMoog when you select osc. as the mod source and filter as the destination. But it was left off the Prodigy. So, the modification really opens up a lot of sound possibilities.
But the sound that will result from the mod can be very close to a ring mod type sound, like the sound of the MF102. When the resonance is down on the filter and osc 2 is being used for modulation, it gives the filter an extra burbling sound. When the resonance is high-and the filter is self oscillating- and you modulate it with osc 2, it sounds like two oscillators cross modulated, or ring modulating. This sound can be made on alot of synths such as the MicroMoog when you select osc. as the mod source and filter as the destination. But it was left off the Prodigy. So, the modification really opens up a lot of sound possibilities.
-
cheveux.boucles
- Posts: 88
- Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:54 pm
- Location: WNC
- Contact:
. are there any musicians that currently use a modded prodigy like this? is it a well-known modification? with it's simplicity you'd think it would be...-
eric coleridge
- Posts: 574
- Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:46 am
- Location: NYC
VCF Modification
This is the most common mod for the Prodigy that I've come across on the web. If you read back through this thread you'll see that Till has perfomed this mod.
So, if Till could post a picture or more info, it would be great. I'm still curious about the buffer you spoke of. I don't know if the buffer is neccesary unless you're adding an external input?
I think the reason more people don't do these mods as much anymore is because people don't have experience with electronics as much as they used to. Back in the 70s, it was common for people interested in synthesizers to build their own synths from kits from Paia or EML or Aries. These synths were also closer to their modular roots, and as such encouraged users to take part in their actual design and layout. With magazines like 'Polyphony' that catered to this impulse, there were widely circulated instructions for all kinds of different modifications.
I wasn't around back then, and only recently started getting interested in the idea of user modifications. I initailly started getting interested in this sort of thing just by using my Moogerfoogers and mostly I was looking to add to their flexability (but without investing in a huge expensive modular synth). So, I started doing some research on the internet and I've found alot of DIY sites with some useful mods here or there.
I haven't had alot of experience with electronics myself, but I've learned alot already just by trying out some of what I've found on the internet. Even though there is always a risk of damaging your synth, I've found that everything I've done so far is quite simple and easily accomplished. Especially with American synths like Arps and Moogs there is alot of description in their user manuals that practically tells you where to insert or tap signals.
I just finished working on a bunch of modifications on my Arp Odyssey. I added direct outputs for each of the oscillator waveforms, ring mod, noise sources, LFO waveforms, envelopes, VCF, and S+H. I also inserted cv and audio inputs for the VCF, VCA, LFO trig, and Envelope trig. The Odyssey already had cv/gate and audio in/outs. So, now I've got a little modular synth, and it sounds like one too. I can output the oscillators to my MoogerFoogers and then send them back into the Odyssey or vice versa in every possible way.
I think the Prodigy is actually a better candidate for modifications, only I haven't been able to find as many tested mods for it. It has great oscillators and filter but it's very limited in the way that it's building blocks interact. Plus, I like the idea of having a complete Moog system. With the MoogerFoogers and a Prodigy, you have nearly every every building block of a synthesizer. Only, the Prodigy needs some modifications to interact to it's fullest potential.
So, if Till could post a picture or more info, it would be great. I'm still curious about the buffer you spoke of. I don't know if the buffer is neccesary unless you're adding an external input?
I think the reason more people don't do these mods as much anymore is because people don't have experience with electronics as much as they used to. Back in the 70s, it was common for people interested in synthesizers to build their own synths from kits from Paia or EML or Aries. These synths were also closer to their modular roots, and as such encouraged users to take part in their actual design and layout. With magazines like 'Polyphony' that catered to this impulse, there were widely circulated instructions for all kinds of different modifications.
I wasn't around back then, and only recently started getting interested in the idea of user modifications. I initailly started getting interested in this sort of thing just by using my Moogerfoogers and mostly I was looking to add to their flexability (but without investing in a huge expensive modular synth). So, I started doing some research on the internet and I've found alot of DIY sites with some useful mods here or there.
I haven't had alot of experience with electronics myself, but I've learned alot already just by trying out some of what I've found on the internet. Even though there is always a risk of damaging your synth, I've found that everything I've done so far is quite simple and easily accomplished. Especially with American synths like Arps and Moogs there is alot of description in their user manuals that practically tells you where to insert or tap signals.
I just finished working on a bunch of modifications on my Arp Odyssey. I added direct outputs for each of the oscillator waveforms, ring mod, noise sources, LFO waveforms, envelopes, VCF, and S+H. I also inserted cv and audio inputs for the VCF, VCA, LFO trig, and Envelope trig. The Odyssey already had cv/gate and audio in/outs. So, now I've got a little modular synth, and it sounds like one too. I can output the oscillators to my MoogerFoogers and then send them back into the Odyssey or vice versa in every possible way.
I think the Prodigy is actually a better candidate for modifications, only I haven't been able to find as many tested mods for it. It has great oscillators and filter but it's very limited in the way that it's building blocks interact. Plus, I like the idea of having a complete Moog system. With the MoogerFoogers and a Prodigy, you have nearly every every building block of a synthesizer. Only, the Prodigy needs some modifications to interact to it's fullest potential.
Dear Eric (and everybody else who is interested!),
as promised, I have started to put together some info on mods I have done in the past on my Prodigy. The first results can be seen here (a friend has kindly agreed to post the info on his website since I don't have one of my own):
http://www.javaworks.de/page13/page44/page44.html
More mods will follow, e.g. on sync-aspects, LFO-frequency range, hold-function, etc.
I hope you will find this useful. I have tried to write up some instructions which should make the mod accessible also for those with little experience in electronics.
Kind regards,
T.
as promised, I have started to put together some info on mods I have done in the past on my Prodigy. The first results can be seen here (a friend has kindly agreed to post the info on his website since I don't have one of my own):
http://www.javaworks.de/page13/page44/page44.html
More mods will follow, e.g. on sync-aspects, LFO-frequency range, hold-function, etc.
I hope you will find this useful. I have tried to write up some instructions which should make the mod accessible also for those with little experience in electronics.
Kind regards,
T.
Gear list:
Voyager AE w/VX-351, MF101/102/103/105, CP251; Roland VK-77, VG-8, PG-100 & V-Drums; Yamaha PF-80 & QY-700; Apple iMac G5 & Logic; various Gibsons & Amps
Voyager AE w/VX-351, MF101/102/103/105, CP251; Roland VK-77, VG-8, PG-100 & V-Drums; Yamaha PF-80 & QY-700; Apple iMac G5 & Logic; various Gibsons & Amps
-
eric coleridge
- Posts: 574
- Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:46 am
- Location: NYC
Prodigy Mods
Wow, T, you're the man. I'm gonna go see your descriptions now.
Also, just for an example of how far user modifications can go, for anyone interested, check out this link to an MS20 re-construction project:
http://ms10rebuild.blogspot.com/
I really like what this guy did to his MS10. It's all cosmetic, but I think it improves the synth.
Also, just for an example of how far user modifications can go, for anyone interested, check out this link to an MS20 re-construction project:
http://ms10rebuild.blogspot.com/
I really like what this guy did to his MS10. It's all cosmetic, but I think it improves the synth.
-
eric coleridge
- Posts: 574
- Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:46 am
- Location: NYC
Prodigy Mods
T, I didn't see any mods listed yet. I'm looking forward to it though....
Anybody like the MS10 Project?
Anybody like the MS10 Project?
Re: Post Subject
Hello,
Eric, you may want to be a bit more strategic in how you mod your Prodigy.
I find, you don't have to do a great deal of changes to it to significantly expand it's capabilities. For starters, you could tailor the changes to mate the Prodigy to a Mooger CP-251. It gives the Prodigy an additional set of
modules to alter some cv functions without having to swiss cheese your synth.
The filter mod is quite useful to start with, and the ring mod tones you get from the function can be enhanced by the CP-251.
You can have a mod wheel cv out installed on the back panel, allowing you
to send the wheel cv to a multiple or the CP's LFO pedal input. This additional lfo can be used to modulate osc 2 as audio rate modulation is
applied to the filter, producing stand-alone ring mod effects, while the
Prodigy's internal lfo is free for vibrato.
Also useful for the stand-alone ring mod effect is a switch to disconnect the
keyboard cv from osc 2. It will function as a non-tracking modulator.
In addition, if its synced to 1, it can be used as a fixed formant.
The osc mod switch could possibly be changed to a 3-position one, like the waveform selector, allowing osc mod off/on, and an additional position if
you want modulation applied to only 1 or 2.
Just a sketch of what a match of Prodigy/CP-251 would do.
Also, while kit synths like PAIA were somewhat popular, it wasn't a widespread practice for most to pop open their synths and mod or work on them. Some adventurous souls did so, but at the time (70's/early 80s),
there was a cottage industry of techs/engineers who did this professionally.
Moog and Arp both had their own custom engineering groups, and also
there were third party outfits and some touring techs that specialized in this.
Wth the preeminence of OS-based synths, that industry has largely disappeared.
Regards,
Lawrence
Eric, you may want to be a bit more strategic in how you mod your Prodigy.
I find, you don't have to do a great deal of changes to it to significantly expand it's capabilities. For starters, you could tailor the changes to mate the Prodigy to a Mooger CP-251. It gives the Prodigy an additional set of
modules to alter some cv functions without having to swiss cheese your synth.
The filter mod is quite useful to start with, and the ring mod tones you get from the function can be enhanced by the CP-251.
You can have a mod wheel cv out installed on the back panel, allowing you
to send the wheel cv to a multiple or the CP's LFO pedal input. This additional lfo can be used to modulate osc 2 as audio rate modulation is
applied to the filter, producing stand-alone ring mod effects, while the
Prodigy's internal lfo is free for vibrato.
Also useful for the stand-alone ring mod effect is a switch to disconnect the
keyboard cv from osc 2. It will function as a non-tracking modulator.
In addition, if its synced to 1, it can be used as a fixed formant.
The osc mod switch could possibly be changed to a 3-position one, like the waveform selector, allowing osc mod off/on, and an additional position if
you want modulation applied to only 1 or 2.
Just a sketch of what a match of Prodigy/CP-251 would do.
Also, while kit synths like PAIA were somewhat popular, it wasn't a widespread practice for most to pop open their synths and mod or work on them. Some adventurous souls did so, but at the time (70's/early 80s),
there was a cottage industry of techs/engineers who did this professionally.
Moog and Arp both had their own custom engineering groups, and also
there were third party outfits and some touring techs that specialized in this.
Wth the preeminence of OS-based synths, that industry has largely disappeared.
Regards,
Lawrence
Hello,
due the nice whether here and the free days I got, I am not that much online for a few days.
I will provide audio examples in the next days.
PROMISED !
But I have no electronic skills to design a right input buffer.
All I did on my Prodigy was the filter FM.
I don't think audio-in FM on the filter is that useful to me.
But this is very much depending on style and habbits.
due the nice whether here and the free days I got, I am not that much online for a few days.
I will provide audio examples in the next days.
PROMISED !
But I have no electronic skills to design a right input buffer.
All I did on my Prodigy was the filter FM.
I don't think audio-in FM on the filter is that useful to me.
But this is very much depending on style and habbits.
keep on turning these Moog knobs
Prodigy * minimoog '79 * Voyager * MF102 * MF103 * MF104z * MP201 * Taurus 3 * Minitaur * Sub Phatty * MF105 * Minimoog 2017+ MUSE * One 16 (sold)
Prodigy * minimoog '79 * Voyager * MF102 * MF103 * MF104z * MP201 * Taurus 3 * Minitaur * Sub Phatty * MF105 * Minimoog 2017+ MUSE * One 16 (sold)
Re: VCF Modification
Check the Minimoog schematics for the external in preamp and the overload lamp driver. These little circuits are working so well on a Minimoog and should also work very well on a Prodigy or other synths.eric coleridge wrote:... I'm still curious about the buffer you spoke of. I don't know if the buffer is neccesary unless you're adding an external input? ...
Its on the same schematic's plan as the filter. Page #72 on my Minimogg service manual. You find the scans easily on the internet.
keep on turning these Moog knobs
Prodigy * minimoog '79 * Voyager * MF102 * MF103 * MF104z * MP201 * Taurus 3 * Minitaur * Sub Phatty * MF105 * Minimoog 2017+ MUSE * One 16 (sold)
Prodigy * minimoog '79 * Voyager * MF102 * MF103 * MF104z * MP201 * Taurus 3 * Minitaur * Sub Phatty * MF105 * Minimoog 2017+ MUSE * One 16 (sold)
Hello Eric,
in case you haven't found the mod on
http://www.javaworks.de/page13/page44/page44.html
click on "enjoy" or on "Prodigy Mods" at the bottom end of the list on the left-hand side of the page", or go to
http://www.javaworks.de/page13/page44/p ... age45.html
I hope the desrciption and figures give some added value.
Regards form Southern Bavaria,
Tilmann
in case you haven't found the mod on
http://www.javaworks.de/page13/page44/page44.html
click on "enjoy" or on "Prodigy Mods" at the bottom end of the list on the left-hand side of the page", or go to
http://www.javaworks.de/page13/page44/p ... age45.html
I hope the desrciption and figures give some added value.
Regards form Southern Bavaria,
Tilmann
Gear list:
Voyager AE w/VX-351, MF101/102/103/105, CP251; Roland VK-77, VG-8, PG-100 & V-Drums; Yamaha PF-80 & QY-700; Apple iMac G5 & Logic; various Gibsons & Amps
Voyager AE w/VX-351, MF101/102/103/105, CP251; Roland VK-77, VG-8, PG-100 & V-Drums; Yamaha PF-80 & QY-700; Apple iMac G5 & Logic; various Gibsons & Amps