getting this sound (darude - sandstorm with link)

[Spank]

i want to get this sound, the sound that i'm talking about occurs at around the 20 second mark of this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSYxT9GM ... orm&watch2

i'm wondering if the low pass filter is able to do this, or if you guys think a LPF plus another effect can help me do this.


thanks in advance!

[lg]

i want to get this sound, the sound that i'm talking about occurs at around the 20 second mark of this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSYxT9GM ... orm&watch2

i'm wondering if the low pass filter is able to do this, or if you guys think a LPF plus another effect can help me do this.


thanks in advance!

sounds to me like there's a sawtooth (or a sine that's been bitcrushed) with some modulation (forgive the uncertainty, i'm listening through tiny speakers this am so's not to wake the sleepers). i honestly don't hear much filtering- you'd need something with an LFO, such as a ring mod (and your original signal source should be able to put out a spiky waveform...you could probably get this entire sound, with keys to give you actual notes, from a moog prodigy or any number of soft synths- probably blasphemy 'round these parts, but whatever works).

btw, here's a resource you might find useful- they have a good number of samples of different effects for comparison's sake:

http://www.modezero.com/audio/

ps i can't tell which is more lame- the video, or me for watching the whole thing

[Spank]

i want to get this sound, the sound that i'm talking about occurs at around the 20 second mark of this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSYxT9GM ... orm&watch2

i'm wondering if the low pass filter is able to do this, or if you guys think a LPF plus another effect can help me do this.


thanks in advance!

sounds to me like there's a sawtooth (or a sine that's been bitcrushed) with some modulation (forgive the uncertainty, i'm listening through tiny speakers this am so's not to wake the sleepers). i honestly don't hear much filtering- you'd need something with an LFO, such as a ring mod (and your original signal source should be able to put out a spiky waveform...you could probably get this entire sound, with keys to give you actual notes, from a moog prodigy or any number of soft synths- probably blasphemy 'round these parts, but whatever works).

btw, here's a resource you might find useful- they have a good number of samples of different effects for comparison's sake:

http://www.modezero.com/audio/

ps i can't tell which is more lame- the video, or me for watching the whole thing

sorry haha. i just picked the first video that had the song, disregarding what the video was actually about.

so would a ring mod be ableto do this perfectly as you suggested or would i need a ring mod in addition to another unit?

[Bryan T]

Deke,

Why not go to a Moog dealer and try out the various effects? You'll learn a lot more in a half hour of playing with the effects than you would in reading about them.

A ring mod on its own isn't going to get the sound in the video, as it does either tremolo or ring mod type effects. A low pass filter on its own won't get that sound either, especially with a guitar signal. Check out the audio clips on the Moog site to hear what those effects sound like with just a guitar.

You're a guitar player, right? Have you considered getting a guitar synth? That might be a better solution to get the synth sounds you want.

Bryan

[Spank]

Deke,

Why not go to a Moog dealer and try out the various effects? You'll learn a lot more in a half hour of playing with the effects than you would in reading about them.

A ring mod on its own isn't going to get the sound in the video, as it does either tremolo or ring mod type effects. A low pass filter on its own won't get that sound either, especially with a guitar signal. Check out the audio clips on the Moog site to hear what those effects sound like with just a guitar.

You're a guitar player, right? Have you considered getting a guitar synth? That might be a better solution to get the synth sounds you want.

Bryan

sorry for the questions.

the thing is though, is that the dealer that's in my town does not have one in stock and they can only order it, so i'm practically reduced to either asking what you guys think or waiting a long time between orders while pissing off the dealer =P

btw, a guitar synth intrigues me... which companies make such and which do you guys recommend in terms of versatility and sound quality if you guys don't mind me asking?

[Bryan T]

sorry for the questions.

I hope you didn't take my comment the wrong way. I wasn't suggesting that you stop asking questions, but I truly do think you'll get a lot more out of trying the pedals out than in asking questions. I think that five minutes with the low pass filter would give you a feel for what it can and (more importantly) can't do. It won't make a guitar sound like a synth. It is, however, a device that you frequently hear applied to synths, drum machines, guitars, basses, and more.

btw, a guitar synth intrigues me... which companies make such and which do you guys recommend in terms of versatility and sound quality

There are lots of ways to go. Roland makes a few different ones that use their synth pickup system. Basically, the synth is a floor unit that has the "brain" that interprets the pickup's signal and then synthesizes the sound from there. Those are the GR series synths. They do everything from classic synth sounds (square waves, saw waves, etc.) to organs and strings.

They also make a half-rack unit called the GI-20 that you can use to convert the pickup's output to standard MIDI, which allows you to use any MIDI controllable synth. Personally, I use the Roland pickup, the GI-20, and then software synthesizers running on my laptop. Then, I process to my heart's content with my MF101, MF102, and CP251. This is all in my home studio, as I haven't tried gigging with the laptop setup yet.

There are other companies that make pickups and other devices, but I'm not as familiar with them. I don't know why using a guitar as a synth controller isn't more popular, but it opens up a universe of new sounds.

Bryan

[Spank]

sorry for the questions.

I hope you didn't take my comment the wrong way. I wasn't suggesting that you stop asking questions, but I truly do think you'll get a lot more out of trying the pedals out than in asking questions. I think that five minutes with the low pass filter would give you a feel for what it can and (more importantly) can't do. It won't make a guitar sound like a synth. It is, however, a device that you frequently hear applied to synths, drum machines, guitars, basses, and more.

btw, a guitar synth intrigues me... which companies make such and which do you guys recommend in terms of versatility and sound quality

There are lots of ways to go. Roland makes a few different ones that use their synth pickup system. Basically, the synth is a floor unit that has the "brain" that interprets the pickup's signal and then synthesizes the sound from there. Those are the GR series synths. They do everything from classic synth sounds (square waves, saw waves, etc.) to organs and strings.

They also make a half-rack unit called the GI-20 that you can use to convert the pickup's output to standard MIDI, which allows you to use any MIDI controllable synth. Personally, I use the Roland pickup, the GI-20, and then software synthesizers running on my laptop. Then, I process to my heart's content with my MF101, MF102, and CP251. This is all in my home studio, as I haven't tried gigging with the laptop setup yet.

There are other companies that make pickups and other devices, but I'm not as familiar with them. I don't know why using a guitar as a synth controller isn't more popular, but it opens up a universe of new sounds.

Bryan

no no i totally understood where you were going. no problem dude

the roland inerests me, but i'm a little weary of drilling holes into my guitar just to install the special pickup. is there something similar that can deliver the same results without getting the guitar drilled with holes?

[lg]

sorry haha. i just picked the first video that had the song, disregarding what the video was actually about.

so would a ring mod be ableto do this perfectly as you suggested or would i need a ring mod in addition to another unit?

first, you'd need a signal source, as the ring mod (unless you're feeding the carrier signal back into the input) doesn't 'make' its own sounds. something with an oscillator that allows you to generate different waveforms- square/sine/triangle/saw/etc. (like i wrote previously, your sample sounds like a sawtooth); most synths are designed with at least one VCO (voltage-controlled oscillator); for example the voyager has three, one of which can be voiced in the sub-audible range, i.e. an LFO (low-frequency oscillator), so that its signal modulates the sound of the other(s); in essence you are hearing the individual cycles modify the source VCO, since the freq. of the LFO is sub-audible. this is part of what the MF-102 can do, in that it has a dedicated LFO for modulating signals- this would give your buzzy, sawtooth signal the choppy tremolo effect i hear in the sample (the ring mod also produces sum and difference frequencies via a voltage-controlled carrier oscillator, which gives it its own distinctive array of sounds).

there are numerous ways you could go about getting this sound, depending on your predilection and bank account. if you are primarily guitar-oriented, a guitar synth might the way to go, as bryan t suggests. fwiw, i haven't found a guitar synth (mostly roland) for which i've like the interface (editing can be cumbersome) and/or tracking much. having said that, i don't own one, though i play often with someone who uses a roland gr20 synth to very nice (if a little pre-set plagued) effect. if what you are doing is recording on the computer, another way to get quick synth sounds is with a plug-in. there are tons out there, but again, i don't build my sounds this way, so someone else on this list would be better to advise you. then there's the notion of finding a used analog synth. i've only played a few- arp oddysey, moog prodigy- both great units, definitely going up in cost, although at least the prodigy can still be found fairly reasonably (caveat: older analog synths can be prone to unstable oscillators and such if they've had a rough life). then again, if you're flush, you could go get a new voyager, and get really busy with your own sounds

one last thought: check out the 4ms triwave picogenerator: http://www.4mspedals.com/triwave-hear.html it's got all the elements i mentioned before (2 VCOs, 3 LFOs, and can be modified with wave-shapers, cross-modulation, ring mod input, etc.). a bit pricey for the works, but you can buy it as a kit if you're solder-savvy; i think it'll do a reasonable take on your sound and a lot more, as the samples might suggest.

[Bryan T]

the roland inerests me, but i'm a little weary of drilling holes into my guitar just to install the special pickup. is there something similar that can deliver the same results without getting the guitar drilled with holes?

You can attach the Roland pickup with screws or double-sided tape. Roland suggests that the tape only be used for a short time, but it has worked fine for me as my "permanent" installation.

There are also several different guitars that come with synth pickups in them. I know Fender did a Strat and Godin does a number of different models.

Bryan

[Spank]

hey thanks alot for the responses guys.

the roland inerests me, but i'm a little weary of drilling holes into my guitar just to install the special pickup. is there something similar that can deliver the same results without getting the guitar drilled with holes?

You can attach the Roland pickup with screws or double-sided tape. Roland suggests that the tape only be used for a short time, but it has worked fine for me as my "permanent" installation.

There are also several different guitars that come with synth pickups in them. I know Fender did a Strat and Godin does a number of different models.

Bryan

thanks. just one more question: from looking at the unit, it doesn't look like it does bypass. does it transform my guitar into a synth unit only or can i bypass it and make it play non-synth guitar as if the unit was not activated?

[Bryan T]

thanks. just one more question: from looking at the unit, it doesn't look like it does bypass. does it transform my guitar into a synth unit only or can i bypass it and make it play non-synth guitar as if the unit was not activated?

Depending on how you set things up, you can have guitar, guitar synth, or guitar and guitar synth. Personally, I keep my guitar and my guitar synth separate, so I would have a cable running to my guitar amp and the synth cable running to my Roland GI-20. However, the synth cable can carry the regular guitar signal. You simply plug a short cable from your guitar's output jack into the GK-3.

Bryan

[hieronymous]

I have to make a comment from a slightly different perspective: to me, the sound in the video you have linked here and that you linked a while ago in a different thread sounds like a pre-packaged digital synth sound. A pile of analog synth gear might get you close to the sound, but it seems like trying to re-invent the wheel, and it sounds like a very expensive endeavor - I don't think that one Moogerfooger is going to do it.

I think it would make more sense to track down artists that use this sound and try and found out how they made it. hopefully it's packaged in a synth somewhere, but then the problem of reproducing it with a guitar synth pops up!

I don't mean to turn you off from Moog stuff - I find it to be an incredible selection of musical tools that have expanded my musical life immeasurably, but I personally don't think it's the way to go to get "that sound" from the video. I have found it more profitable to explore the moogerfoogers and find what they have to offer, instead of expecting them to do things that I already have preconceived in my head.

I know that the conversation has already headed in the guitar synth direction, but I just had to say it anyway. I keep hoping that someone will post saying, "that's the ___ sound from the Korg Triton blahblahblah" but so far nobody has...

[MarkM]

I agree that the MF low pass or Ring Mod won't get that sound from a guitar. It does sound like a preset from a synth. I would think most synths could approximate it. It has a formant tone to it. Doubt you'll get it from a guitar, but a spikey distorted guitar would get you by in a live club situation.

[lg]

I have to make a comment from a slightly different perspective: to me, the sound in the video you have linked here and that you linked a while ago in a different thread sounds like a pre-packaged digital synth sound. A pile of analog synth gear might get you close to the sound, but it seems like trying to re-invent the wheel, and it sounds like a very expensive endeavor - I don't think that one Moogerfooger is going to do it.

I think it would make more sense to track down artists that use this sound and try and found out how they made it. hopefully it's packaged in a synth somewhere, but then the problem of reproducing it with a guitar synth pops up!

I don't mean to turn you off from Moog stuff - I find it to be an incredible selection of musical tools that have expanded my musical life immeasurably, but I personally don't think it's the way to go to get "that sound" from the video. I have found it more profitable to explore the moogerfoogers and find what they have to offer, instead of expecting them to do things that I already have preconceived in my head.

I know that the conversation has already headed in the guitar synth direction, but I just had to say it anyway. I keep hoping that someone will post saying, "that's the ___ sound from the Korg Triton blahblahblah" but so far nobody has...

good post- i agree completely. the exercise of recreating sounds is exactly that- something that is a step on the way toward finding "my sound" (or however you like to think of it), but not really an end unto itself. one of the things that most attracts me to the analog instruments to which this forum is devoted is their 'indeterminate' quality- one which (with the exception of the voyager's preset functions, and a few of the earlier attempts at programmability by moog) allows one to continually reinvent one's music in unexpected ways (it would be cool to be able to save some of these patches, but i'd gladly give up that ability in order to have the range of expression all these knobs and patch cords allow). i think the person who knows "that's the sound from the Korg Triton blahblahblah..." is probably posting to "Canned Music Forum" or some such thing.

[MarkM]

I got kind of close to the sound on my Moog Mod V soft synth. Some saws going through the formant filter really gets it close, but the soft synth was a bit too smooth. Perhaps if I ran it through an overdrive pedal I would have come closer. I'm thinking my Ion, when it gets back from repair, might be able to get close with one of its formant filters along with its Moog LP clone filter as well as its overdrive.