Tap-tempo "listening"

moogmoog · Post by **moogmoog** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:59 am

I've noticed a lot of talk about "tweaking" equipment or opening up an existing pedal to see what makes it work. Besides this, there are also a lot of dancing hula dolls that respond to a beat and lights that respond to a beat. At this point, you may wonder what I'm getting at. Basically, I've had troubles with a tap-tempo pedal I've been using..playing bass to the even beats of a micron keyboard, but my MF seems to always get off tempo in a measure or two. Is there a device that would "listen" to an outside sound and analyze the tempo, possibly even continually readjust the tempo, to stay on time with another instrument? This would be worth the bucks...

Michael Glaviano · Post by **Michael Glaviano** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:49 pm

I was thinking about trying the output of my electronic metronome. If that works well, then the metronome that's available from my DAW software ought to work great for recording tracks.

moogmoog · Post by **moogmoog** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 2:53 pm

Thanks MG. That's one option for getting an exact tempo range before you start playing. I'm trying to play to other "live" instruments that would want my sound to adapt to theirs from the tempo they start at, which would vary a little each time anyways. So, basically there's no connection electronically and I'm trying to make one through the ether and somehow find a machine that can translate a tempo out of the noise in the room.

moogmoog · Post by **moogmoog** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 2:55 pm

I should clarify and say not just random "noise" but actual playing and sounds, although some would be more usable to find a tempo than others (esp. drums). Relying on the high hat alone might be enough to do this.

Michael Glaviano · Post by **Michael Glaviano** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 4:12 pm

M**2:

I am not sure how this would work w/ MF's, but I've had good luck playing a GR33 guitar synth in the following manner:

1) Select a drum kit patch on the GR33.
2) Run the analog signal to your guitar to an amp.
3) Chord or comp through your tune.

You'll notice right away how your chord pattern locks into the drum hits that you are triggering. It's as though you are jamming with someone who closely anticipates your moves.

The other evening, I managed to get a similar thing going with an MF105 and a few LFO signals that were modulating each other via a 251. Of course it was late & I didn't write down the "patch" so who knows if I'll ever reproduce it. I think some kind of feedback loop needs to get set up. Seems like a direction to explore, though.

Keep us posted on your discoveries.

Thanks,

Michael Glaviano · Post by **Michael Glaviano** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 4:23 pm

Maybe this is what you meant when you referred to a high hat, but I wonder what would happen if you miked a drummer tapping on a hand drum and sent that into the step input while you jammed with him/her. Seems like that would do a more musical synch.

Of course before doing that I'd want to look at the specs for the allowed input levels on the tap input to make sure I wouldn't burn anything out.

moogmoog · Post by **moogmoog** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:24 pm

I should also be more specific and say that I'm running a MF Bass Murf which is more rhytmically-based than some other Moogers (and in turn sounds more off if it's not right on). But, wow, would that be really cool if you could mic a drum and have the pedal pick up on the tempo. It seems like you would need to run it through an on/off or expression box of some sort.

stereordinary · Post by **stereordinary** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:24 am

Wow moogmoog, it sounds like everyone here is missing your point. I don't have any answers for you now, but I'll look into it. It is possible, I think, but you have to figure that everytime your drummer does some synchopated weird-ass fill, it'll throw your MuRF off. And if your drummer is anything like mine, you'd be screwed.

moogmoog · Post by **moogmoog** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:42 am

The main reason I mention this is that the murf seems very fit for studio recording..just seems really tricky to find and stick to the tempo of other instruments in the band using just the tap-tempo switch (not to mention having to tap it 3 times while playing??) for live recording. I don't know how many of you have heard the new bass murf, but it's very rhythmic- each of those filters is basically a drum part.
Having a unit that would somehow steadily analyze the tempo, even from a foot tapping, seems like it would come in handy for any machine that needs to produce a steady tempo (delays, tremelos, drum machines, etc. etc. etc.) in order to not cause a trainwreck. I'd find it hard to believe that there's not something out there that does this. the first to invent this would be a certified pedal-wrangling genius in my book.

asd · Post by **asd** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:46 pm

couldn't you use some type of external device as a tap tempo that was more accurate than the murf and then use it with the step adaptor to manually step through the filters rather than relying on the murf's tap tempo calculations? if you're in a studio and concerned with precision i would think that you'd be able to use some sort of metronome in conjunction with the step adapter to keep the murf in tempo with everything else.

moogmoog · Post by **moogmoog** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:50 pm

It's slowly getting clearer. so the step adapter controls each of the eight filters, meaning you could SLOWLY move through a rhythm and not have each "beat" equidistant from the last, if i'm getting it right. so what happens if you're playing so slowly that there is not a tempo at all? does it just give it a resonance?

the description says you could use it as a "clock input," and bypass the tap tempo entirely, an idea which bypasses my head at the moment. i'm sure it makes sense once things are paid for and out of the box, but this needs to happen before then. asd, it sounds like that would take care of the accuracy of the murf's tap tempo. we'll get to the point of this thread, and I'll definitely post if and when I figure it out. thanks for the tips.

eric coleridge · Post by **eric coleridge** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:29 pm

moogmoog wrote: the description says you could use it as a "clock input," and bypass the tap tempo entirely, an idea which bypasses my head at the moment. i'm sure it makes sense once things are paid for and out of the box, but this needs to happen before then. asd, it sounds like that would take care of the accuracy of the murf's tap tempo. we'll get to the point of this thread, and I'll definitely post if and when I figure it out. thanks for the tips.

If it has a "clock input" that's all you need. Just mic (or direct) whatever sound you want the tempo to follow and send it to your Murf. Clock inputs are meant to be used with clock signals like synth gates, or drum machine/tape clock pulses, so a normal sound source may need to be processed first in order to get it to the right level. A mic'd drum sound, for instance, may need to be compressed and amplified, but after doing this, it should work.

What you're looking for is already on the MURF. A tap tempo and sync input are basically the same thing as those lights that sync to music tempo (as you described).

moogmoog · Post by **moogmoog** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:01 am

Wow, that's good news. I could see it working really well from a line out or effects send from something digital (i.e. keyboard) but the fact that a drum would work could be really good news. It seems like, if mic'd right with no interference, a sneer drum would give a pretty steady and readable rhythm, and a high hat might be trickier in terms of sound levels, although it would have fewer fills.
Putting two and two together, a step adapter might be very handy in reading the constantly changing tick of a drum or hat. If that's how these mystery devices would work, this thread's on to something

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