Moog Modular Expansion & Power Requirements

System 55 • System 35 • Model 15
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thedangore
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:21 pm

Moog Modular Expansion & Power Requirements

Post by thedangore » Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:31 am

Hello all,

Playing with the idea of futuristically adding a third upper cabinet of 22MU of modules, all moog, similar to something like this, so I know its possible(not practical :D ): https://moogfoundation.org/wp-content/u ... ogue-2.jpg
Mine would be some combo of a 960 sequencer, 962 sequential switch and some other filters, EG's, VCA, VCO modules from a model 15. Basically downsizing the portable tolex cabinet and combining a custom set of moog modules in a walnut cabinet with more space for a few modules of expansion down the road.

Theoretically, how would this be powered? The current 930 Power supply Where would it connect to since, 1) the cable isn't even long enough to reach from that high 2) there are only two extension cabinet ports on the back of the System 55 or IIIC. Would this have its own power supply rather than Obviously, I know some customization is in order here and information has been difficult to come by to say the least, particularly on moog systems.

I am aware of Synthesizers.com cabinet, but I do not know if they make a custom power supply specifically for Moog systems with +12v -6 rather than +15v -15. Synth-werk may have some answers too but I'm looking for anyone experienced with suggestions on how one might proceed? I sure wish that picture had a photo of the backside! :roll:

synthguy
Posts: 116
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 7:37 pm

Re: Moog Modular Expansion & Power Requirements

Post by synthguy » Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:24 pm

This sounds like an interesting project, and I wish you good luck as you proceed!

Since something like this would require a certain amount of customization, I would think that the easiest way to connect another cabinet would be to add a parallel power connector to the current top cabinet, and then you can use a short cable to attach and power any additional cabinets.
The 930 supply should be able to power additional modules, but I'm not sure how many, or what the maximum current is that it could deliver.
I've done a fair amount of customization on my 55 over the years, and for a while I had a second 960 sequencer and sequential switch in an additional wing cabinet that a friend had built for me, (at least until someone broke into my storage space and stole them :evil: ) and my solution to powering them was to cut a couple of the (tie-wrapped) unused card power connectors in the original top cabinet loose, and plug them into these devices. This worked very well and was easy enough to deal with, but if I were adding more modules, I would have probably created some sort of custom cable as mentioned above.
I would also be sure to refurbish the 930 to make sure that it is in peak operating condition. I created a blog post about the process with pictures when I did mine, and you can find it at synthguy.com.

Looking at the service data for the 930 just now, I see that when properly calibrated, it can supply 1.7A for the 12volt supply, and 2.5A for the -6volt supply. Given this, you could use an ammeter to measure the current draw for each supply on the main system, and the current draw for the modules you plan to add to see if you're within the capabilities of your 930.

I hope this helps you in your journey!
Visit my synthblog...Moogs and more!
Www.synthguy.com

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dingebre
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:21 pm
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Re: Moog Modular Expansion & Power Requirements

Post by dingebre » Fri Feb 28, 2020 2:23 am

First, I recommend looking at Dave Brown's Modular Synthesis site:

https://www.modularsynthesis.com/moog/moog.htm

He has some great photographs of some Moog modular restorations he's done with other useful information.

On this page, he details making a Dot Com cabinet adapter.

https://www.modularsynthesis.com/moog/p ... _power.htm

Here are the Mouser links for the Moog connector hardware:
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/571-5-530501-5
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/571-582388-9

They don't have the 571-5-530505-5 pins anymore.

Tool for pin extraction, ridiculous price :)
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/571-810992-1

The connectors are straight forward to wire and assemble. If you want to move standard Moog modules around, just be sure to add any extra inter module "hard" wiring, like between a VCO driver and the slave VCOs.

With regard to power, I'm quite certain my Model 15 uses an "off the shelf" linear supply; looks like a Power One, now called Bel Power Solutions, or something very comparable. They are nice and come in a lot of different configurations. They are "bare" and require you to add a power cord, connectors, fuses, etc. and you will have to be sure to take all safety precautions recommended as you will have "mains" voltage present in your cabinet. You probably won't find a +12/-6, but one of their engineers explained how to make my +/-12 supply into a +12/-10 supply. You might be able to make it a +12/-6, too if you have the motivation. An easier option is to buy a +/-15 and do an adapter like Dave Brown. Dave used adjustable regulators (I prefer adjustable regulators, too). Remember Moog uses several voltages depending on the module so make sure you are providing the correct and all the proper voltages. Note that Dave's adapter provides +12, -10 and -6 volts from the +/- 15 supply for the particular modules he had to power. If you use adjustable regulators, remember you have to have a minimum load on the regulator before it starts to work and before you can adjust it.

Synthesizers Dot Com use a small switching supply for small systems, and what looks like a Bel Power Solutions linear for their larger systems. I have some of both. Roger makes very high quality stuff and is a great person to work with.

Gerhard at Synth-Werk makes excellent gear and I can't recommend it highly enough. I purchased a lot of modules from him to expand my Model 15 and they are amazing! His modules all have on board regulators and mate with a standard Dot Com power supply and connector. He also knows exactly how to integrate his modules into vintage or the re-issued Moog systems and has instructions that come with his modules where needed. In addition to other modules, I put one of his 921-B VCOs in my Model 15 to make the Model 15's a trio of 921-Bs instead of just two slave VCOs. It was simple and completely reversible to do this. Right now, I have his other modules in some Dot Com "Moog" cases, but I also just got on Gerhard's list for a sequencer compliment, another full size portable power cabinet with some console modules, and two one module high, 8U expansion cabinets. I don't know how Gerhard handles power in his new full size portable cabinets.
2019-02-14 21.42.39.jpg
Bottom line, you have several options for powering your expansion cabinet. Use an "off the shelf" +/- 15 like the Dot Com ones or a bare Bel Power solutions then use Dave Brown's adapter. Synth-Werk has a 22U powered expansion cabinet you could also use with an adaapter.

https://synth-werk.com/content/wooden-and-tolex-cases

Dot Com has a non-powered 22U cabinet:
https://synthesizers.com/studiocabinets.html

Dave's adapter is a clean and pretty simple solution. You could also put together a different distribution than the Dot Com compatible connectors on Dave's adapter like the screw terminals Moog used. Dot Com uses individual cables all connected with wire nuts through one main supply cable to the main power distribution terminals.

I think there are a lot of options open to you with the main obstacle of cost :)

David
David

http://analoguerealities.com
http://analoguerealities.blogspot.com

thedangore
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:21 pm

Re: Moog Modular Expansion & Power Requirements

Post by thedangore » Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:45 am

synthguy wrote: Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:24 pmI would also be sure to refurbish the 930 to make sure that it is in peak operating condition. I created a blog post about the process with pictures when I did mine, and you can find it at synthguy.com.

Looking at the service data for the 930 just now, I see that when properly calibrated, it can supply 1.7A for the 12volt supply, and 2.5A for the -6volt supply. Given this, you could use an ammeter to measure the current draw for each supply on the main system, and the current draw for the modules you plan to add to see if you're within the capabilities of your 930.

I hope this helps you in your journey!
Thanks so much synthguy, I have the IIIC reissue so I don't think refurbishing the 930 should be necessary? I don't have an ammeter but it sounds like I should start investing in one. This is not an area of expertise to be certain, but I am willing to try! Especially given its been done before. I just want to be walked through the process to make sure I'm not ruining anything! I'll start looking at the draws of each of the modules I'd like to put in there and see if I can't look into modifying the 930 to handle some more modules as a starting point at least. It's important for me to stay all moog on this project and I'd really like a third sequencer and 962 module as well as filling the rest of the other 13u consisting of 911 EG, 902 VCA, 904A Filter, 921, 921A, 921B. Will it end there? No one can be certain of that.

Thanks again for your input. Anything you can give me or point me to I will soak it up. Resources, people, blogs, forums. I want to learn for myself so I can handle any customization needs. Wish moog was willing to help out on customers that want custom Moogs!

thedangore
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:21 pm

Re: Moog Modular Expansion & Power Requirements

Post by thedangore » Mon Mar 16, 2020 1:02 am

dingebre wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2020 2:23 am First, I recommend looking at Dave Brown's Modular Synthesis site:

https://www.modularsynthesis.com/moog/moog.htm

He has some great photographs of some Moog modular restorations he's done with other useful information.

On this page, he details making a Dot Com cabinet adapter.

https://www.modularsynthesis.com/moog/p ... _power.htm

Here are the Mouser links for the Moog connector hardware:
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/571-5-530501-5
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/571-582388-9

They don't have the 571-5-530505-5 pins anymore.

Tool for pin extraction, ridiculous price :)
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/571-810992-1

The connectors are straight forward to wire and assemble. If you want to move standard Moog modules around, just be sure to add any extra inter module "hard" wiring, like between a VCO driver and the slave VCOs.

With regard to power, I'm quite certain my Model 15 uses an "off the shelf" linear supply; looks like a Power One, now called Bel Power Solutions, or something very comparable. They are nice and come in a lot of different configurations. They are "bare" and require you to add a power cord, connectors, fuses, etc. and you will have to be sure to take all safety precautions recommended as you will have "mains" voltage present in your cabinet. You probably won't find a +12/-6, but one of their engineers explained how to make my +/-12 supply into a +12/-10 supply. You might be able to make it a +12/-6, too if you have the motivation. An easier option is to buy a +/-15 and do an adapter like Dave Brown. Dave used adjustable regulators (I prefer adjustable regulators, too). Remember Moog uses several voltages depending on the module so make sure you are providing the correct and all the proper voltages. Note that Dave's adapter provides +12, -10 and -6 volts from the +/- 15 supply for the particular modules he had to power. If you use adjustable regulators, remember you have to have a minimum load on the regulator before it starts to work and before you can adjust it.

Synthesizers Dot Com use a small switching supply for small systems, and what looks like a Bel Power Solutions linear for their larger systems. I have some of both. Roger makes very high quality stuff and is a great person to work with.

Gerhard at Synth-Werk makes excellent gear and I can't recommend it highly enough. I purchased a lot of modules from him to expand my Model 15 and they are amazing! His modules all have on board regulators and mate with a standard Dot Com power supply and connector. He also knows exactly how to integrate his modules into vintage or the re-issued Moog systems and has instructions that come with his modules where needed. In addition to other modules, I put one of his 921-B VCOs in my Model 15 to make the Model 15's a trio of 921-Bs instead of just two slave VCOs. It was simple and completely reversible to do this. Right now, I have his other modules in some Dot Com "Moog" cases, but I also just got on Gerhard's list for a sequencer compliment, another full size portable power cabinet with some console modules, and two one module high, 8U expansion cabinets. I don't know how Gerhard handles power in his new full size portable cabinets.

2019-02-14 21.42.39.jpg

Bottom line, you have several options for powering your expansion cabinet. Use an "off the shelf" +/- 15 like the Dot Com ones or a bare Bel Power solutions then use Dave Brown's adapter. Synth-Werk has a 22U powered expansion cabinet you could also use with an adaapter.

https://synth-werk.com/content/wooden-and-tolex-cases

Dot Com has a non-powered 22U cabinet:
https://synthesizers.com/studiocabinets.html

Dave's adapter is a clean and pretty simple solution. You could also put together a different distribution than the Dot Com compatible connectors on Dave's adapter like the screw terminals Moog used. Dot Com uses individual cables all connected with wire nuts through one main supply cable to the main power distribution terminals.

I think there are a lot of options open to you with the main obstacle of cost :)

David
Ridiculously detailed post. And for this I thank you! I am so grateful for you guys taking your time to help me out! I am very intrigued by the Synthwerk powered 22u top cabinet. That is precisely what I need, If he is willing to provide the correct power and number of edge connectors to the modules I would need, that could be a good workaround to keep the modding in the hands of the experts. Thoughts? Experience? Finding good information on how to do this has been hard, so I greatly appreciate your taking the time to dump information my direction!

Also, How does his 921b sound in comparison with the Moog? Any noticeable differences? I feel like I remember reading that Synthwerk does a excellent job staying faithful to the original designs of the Moog modules. Any truth to this? Seems like you're enjoying their stuff! Quite a beautiful set up! I'd love to see the pictures when your new stuff arrives! Check back in when it does!

rzzzzz
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:00 pm

Re: Moog Modular Expansion & Power Requirements

Post by rzzzzz » Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:21 pm

shoot. i thought adding a few foogers to my 15 was extravagant. (though it solves the power requirements.)

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dingebre
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Moog Modular Expansion & Power Requirements

Post by dingebre » Sat May 02, 2020 4:34 pm

thedangore wrote: Mon Mar 16, 2020 1:02 am
dingebre wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2020 2:23 am First, I recommend looking at Dave Brown's Modular Synthesis site:

https://www.modularsynthesis.com/moog/moog.htm

He has some great photographs of some Moog modular restorations he's done with other useful information.

On this page, he details making a Dot Com cabinet adapter.

https://www.modularsynthesis.com/moog/p ... _power.htm

Here are the Mouser links for the Moog connector hardware:
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/571-5-530501-5
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/571-582388-9

They don't have the 571-5-530505-5 pins anymore.

Tool for pin extraction, ridiculous price :)
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/571-810992-1

The connectors are straight forward to wire and assemble. If you want to move standard Moog modules around, just be sure to add any extra inter module "hard" wiring, like between a VCO driver and the slave VCOs.

With regard to power, I'm quite certain my Model 15 uses an "off the shelf" linear supply; looks like a Power One, now called Bel Power Solutions, or something very comparable. They are nice and come in a lot of different configurations. They are "bare" and require you to add a power cord, connectors, fuses, etc. and you will have to be sure to take all safety precautions recommended as you will have "mains" voltage present in your cabinet. You probably won't find a +12/-6, but one of their engineers explained how to make my +/-12 supply into a +12/-10 supply. You might be able to make it a +12/-6, too if you have the motivation. An easier option is to buy a +/-15 and do an adapter like Dave Brown. Dave used adjustable regulators (I prefer adjustable regulators, too). Remember Moog uses several voltages depending on the module so make sure you are providing the correct and all the proper voltages. Note that Dave's adapter provides +12, -10 and -6 volts from the +/- 15 supply for the particular modules he had to power. If you use adjustable regulators, remember you have to have a minimum load on the regulator before it starts to work and before you can adjust it.

Synthesizers Dot Com use a small switching supply for small systems, and what looks like a Bel Power Solutions linear for their larger systems. I have some of both. Roger makes very high quality stuff and is a great person to work with.

Gerhard at Synth-Werk makes excellent gear and I can't recommend it highly enough. I purchased a lot of modules from him to expand my Model 15 and they are amazing! His modules all have on board regulators and mate with a standard Dot Com power supply and connector. He also knows exactly how to integrate his modules into vintage or the re-issued Moog systems and has instructions that come with his modules where needed. In addition to other modules, I put one of his 921-B VCOs in my Model 15 to make the Model 15's a trio of 921-Bs instead of just two slave VCOs. It was simple and completely reversible to do this. Right now, I have his other modules in some Dot Com "Moog" cases, but I also just got on Gerhard's list for a sequencer compliment, another full size portable power cabinet with some console modules, and two one module high, 8U expansion cabinets. I don't know how Gerhard handles power in his new full size portable cabinets.

2019-02-14 21.42.39.jpg

Bottom line, you have several options for powering your expansion cabinet. Use an "off the shelf" +/- 15 like the Dot Com ones or a bare Bel Power solutions then use Dave Brown's adapter. Synth-Werk has a 22U powered expansion cabinet you could also use with an adaapter.

https://synth-werk.com/content/wooden-and-tolex-cases

Dot Com has a non-powered 22U cabinet:
https://synthesizers.com/studiocabinets.html

Dave's adapter is a clean and pretty simple solution. You could also put together a different distribution than the Dot Com compatible connectors on Dave's adapter like the screw terminals Moog used. Dot Com uses individual cables all connected with wire nuts through one main supply cable to the main power distribution terminals.

I think there are a lot of options open to you with the main obstacle of cost :)

David
Ridiculously detailed post. And for this I thank you! I am so grateful for you guys taking your time to help me out! I am very intrigued by the Synthwerk powered 22u top cabinet. That is precisely what I need, If he is willing to provide the correct power and number of edge connectors to the modules I would need, that could be a good workaround to keep the modding in the hands of the experts. Thoughts? Experience? Finding good information on how to do this has been hard, so I greatly appreciate your taking the time to dump information my direction!

Also, How does his 921b sound in comparison with the Moog? Any noticeable differences? I feel like I remember reading that Synthwerk does a excellent job staying faithful to the original designs of the Moog modules. Any truth to this? Seems like you're enjoying their stuff! Quite a beautiful set up! I'd love to see the pictures when your new stuff arrives! Check back in when it does!
Sorry for the delay. I forgot to check the "notify me" check box.

You're welcome! I'm sure Gerhard will work with you regarding power and adapting. If you need the specific Moog type edge connectors, they can be had with the pins on Mouser, see links in my post above. Dave Brown has links on his pages, too if memory serves. The Dot Com connectors are very standard and can be found at any number of electronics parts suppliers.

I specifically listened to the Moog 921B against the Synth-Werk 921B and I honestly couldn't hear a difference. I personally like Gerhard's goal of staying true to the Moog designs. I think he has done an excellent job and the quality of his modules is amazing.

David
David

http://analoguerealities.com
http://analoguerealities.blogspot.com

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