Ableton + Sub 37 (Ableton MIDI Clock -> Sub 37 Seq/Arp Sync)

[jtmatchett]

I tried to search for an existing post on this subject but could not find one. Sorry if this is a duplicate...

I, for the life of me, can not figure this out and I'm about to go crazy. I have Ableton sync'd up to my Sub 37. My Sub 37 see's and accepts the MIDI clock information from Ableton. I have the proper Hardware Latency selected in Ableton so timing is almost perfect. The issue I am running into is that whenever I attempt to use/turn on the Step Sequencer/Arp on the Sub 37, the Sub 37 falls out of time with Ableton and will never run in sync with Ableton's MIDI clock. When analyzing the waveforms, the initial transients on a 1/4 note Arp are almost 56ms delayed. If I create the same Arp in Ableton and send it to the Sub 37 without using its built in Step Sequencer/Arp, it plays back perfectly in time. I only notice the "latency" when I turn the Step Sequencer/Arp section 'On' on the Sub 37 and hit 'Sync'. In the Sub 37 MIDI settings I have Follow SPP, Send ST/STP 'On' and Send Clock 'Off'.

Chain: Ableton Live -> MOTU micro lite -> Sub 37

Am I doing something wrong or is there an actual issue with the Sub 37 Step Sequencer/Arp working in time as Slave to a DAW? Any ideas or help would be massively appreciated!

[Matthias32]

This is exactly how it behaves here too, it's erm...normal?

it's to do with the latency compensation in ableton live: this makes estimates of how processing affects delay and adjusts accordingly, sometimes being very wrong. There are unfortunately no separate adjustments per external instrument (which is where these timing guesses often go wrong)

There are 2 ways to have the machine working in sync, however they require some changes to be made to the setup when you switch technique, so it is a bit cumbersome:

1. If you turn off 'latency compensation' in the drop down menu, the delay shift error is gone, but plugin-delay might cause trouble and needs to be managed manually. But the arps and lfo's will sync bar a few milliseconds of delay which is inherent to midi.

2. If you leave on latency compensation, adjust the midi clock message delay time negatively per external instrument (in the preferences list of all ins & outs you can click on 'sync' next to the midi or usb out and adjust timing) ofsetting this value will compensate for the error in ableton's latency compensation (npi)

[jtmatchett]

This is exactly how it behaves here too, it's erm...normal?

it's to do with the latency compensation in ableton live: this makes estimates of how processing affects delay and adjusts accordingly, sometimes being very wrong. There are unfortunately no separate adjustments per external instrument (which is where these timing guesses often go wrong)

There are 2 ways to have the machine working in sync, however they require some changes to be made to the setup when you switch technique, so it is a bit cumbersome:

1. If you turn off 'latency compensation' in the drop down menu, the delay shift error is gone, but plugin-delay might cause trouble and needs to be managed manually. But the arps and lfo's will sync bar a few milliseconds of delay which is inherent to midi.

2. If you leave on latency compensation, adjust the midi clock message delay time negatively per external instrument (in the preferences list of all ins & outs you can click on 'sync' next to the midi or usb out and adjust timing) ofsetting this value will compensate for the error in ableton's latency compensation (npi)

Thank you for the response! I'll give your suggestions a try and hopefully that resolves the issue.

Edit: This did resolve my issue. A combination of a negative MIDI clock timing under preferences and adjusting Hardware Latency on the External Instrument plugin corrected the Arp/Step Sequencer timing issues. Thank you so much for the help!