What Moog to get?

[Gheddi]

Hey, I'm new to synthesizers but I already made some research the past weeks and did everything I could in my area to get some information. I even searched up some music-teachers in the yellow pages and asked them for advice. The only one I found was an old friend of mine and he told me to either find someone who owns a Moog, because your decision will be way easier if you had your hands on one already, or to just save up some money and get me one. So I already had my hands on a Moog Voyager XL and as you can guess, it just felt epic. But 6000€ (yes, euro, because I'm german) is way out of my range.

So my question here is, what Moog should I get? I like all of them, but for now i'm pretty hooked with the Moog Voyager Performance Edition. Other options would be the Sub 37 or the Sub Phatty.

Can anybody please help me? The music I would make would go into an ambient direction (for example many pieces by Sun Arraw, some instrumental pieces by Nine Inch Nails, or moogmusic demos like "Solar Rise") and instrumentals. (((But I'm also a producer, I currently work with Ableton Live 9.5, an Ableton Push 2, an Alesis Midi Keyboard and an Elektron Analog Rytm.)))

If I get one of these Moogs, I would order it with an Moogerfooger Delay, or an Eventide H9, something with really heavy reverb and/or delay!

Thanks for reading, have a nice day and I'm waiting for helpfull responses

[jsharpphoto]

I think the best "first Moog" is the sub37. Specifically, I have mine run into an MF-104m and an H9. So I can speak first hand that it will make the sounds you said you want to make. They voyager is a different animal. I have one of those also. They CAN make similar sounds as each other, but the duo mode and arpeggiator on the sub37 steals the show when paired with the H9.

[EricK]

Voyager. If you can consider a Voyager you can consider a Model D also.

I argue Voyager over the Sub because it is more synth and is expandable. If you are patient you can find good deals on the second-hand market. Furthermore, you don't need the extra onboard sequencing since you have Ableton.
I have a lingering suspicion that the Sub37 Tribute Edition is about to see a change to a "stage" edition the way the LP went and the Sub Phatty went.

[captainkidd]

I think the best "first Moog" is the sub37. Specifically, I have mine run into an MF-104m and an H9. So I can speak first hand that it will make the sounds you said you want to make. They voyager is a different animal. I have one of those also. They CAN make similar sounds as each other, but the duo mode and arpeggiator on the sub37 steals the show when paired with the H9.

Yeah I would agree, my first Moog is the SUB 37, it is the whole reason why I now have the big Synth bug. Until recently I didn't know much about Synths (and really still don't) but when I first saw the SUB 37 and Sup Phatty at a local music store I started messing with them and thinking that WOW I've heard of MOOG and this is an affordable MOOG. I kept telling myself I have no business in buying one because for all points and purposes I am a drummer and have a real nice big electronic kit. Plus I really don't have that musical gene in me so I struggle. But I kept looking and playing with them and keeping my eye out for that "deal"

Well I finally came across an open box SUB 37 that I was able to save a couple hundred bills on it. It really is a nice all around great Synth. But as stated that just started me off getting more gear like a Mother 32 on sale, Minitaur on sale, Werkstatt, and a few MoogerFoogers now. I would really like to eventually get a Voyager XL but it will be awhile until I can also justify it. Not sure if that helps much but the SUB 37 get's my vote for starting out with.

[jsharpphoto]

Voyager. If you can consider a Voyager you can consider a Model D also.

I argue Voyager over the Sub because it is more synth and is expandable. If you are patient you can find good deals on the second-hand market. Furthermore, you don't need the extra onboard sequencing since you have Ableton.
I have a lingering suspicion that the Sub37 Tribute Edition is about to see a change to a "stage" edition the way the LP went and the Sub Phatty went.

No offense to EricK, because he is a valuable asset to this forum, but I don't agree with his recommendation. Certainly not in regards to the possibility of a model D. The original poster already stated they are working in ableton, and a model D, unless it has been retrofitted, won't make use of any of those advancements that come with using ableton with modern hardware gear. And yes, the voyager is "more synth" the sub37 is "more flexible".

Especially when he asked about using it with an H9 to make ambient dark synth scapes. The sub37 is the right tool for the job.

[EricK]

No offense taken, and thank you for the compliment.

It seems that there is a lot of bias towards the Sub 37 because it is new and because it is representative of a more modern approach to music.

You are obviously fortunate enough to own both whereas I have never seen Sub 37, so full disclosure there.

Let me be more specific.

1.The Voyager's software was written by RL and is rock solid.

2.It is the ultimate controller synthesizer. It has extensive CV ins and outs (With the Vx351 providing the outs, of course). The keyboard can be totally separate from the Voyager to control other synths while the Voyager's Midi or CV allows it to be slaved to something else simultaneously. It is a Midi to CV converter with the VX-351. It also sports more keys.

3.It is a stereo instrument and a sound designer's powerhouse. 3 fully functional oscillators. A slew of programmable sources and destinations on 2 mod busses (which can be externalized) and pot mapping. All kinds of external CV gear can modulate many destinations without incapacitating the onboard modulation.

4. The knobs are of a decent size and therefore the panel isn't cluttered.

Yes the Sub has an onboard sequencer/arpeggiator/retriggerable envelopes, but these things can be done for free with various software sequencers.
Yes the Sub has multidrive, but the Voyager can achieve this with very inexpensive effects inserted directly in between the mixer and the filter.

The Voyager can do dark synthscapes just fine. The Sub does have that extra note, but it isn't a necessary component. Whatever reverb one wants to run it through won't make or break the deal.

If I had to choose between a Voyager or a Sub 37, I would choose a Voyager. There are better options in the Sub 37 price range while the Sub holds it's current features. Like I said, they may very well come out with an improved version of the Sub 37 or else they wouldn't have called it the Tribute Edition. I'd give it another year or 2 and see if they improve it with their stage version. It's their flagship now.

The thing is we should make sure what we really aren't debating is our bias towards or against one or the other. The Sub is new, it's hot, a lot of people are excited about it. The Voyager has been discontinued. The Voyager lacks some of the features popular in today's music. But the Sub 37 is stifled by it's lacking CV ins and outs that a Moog customer is going to want when they start getting into the Fooger camp.

The foogers push people towards modular thinking and the SUB 37 isn't the keyboard to facilitate that. The Voyager is really deep and it offers a modern studio far much more in the way of overall incorporation.


The minimoog Model D is a great instrument and is very powerful and should never be discounted. If one is in a position to consider the Voyager the Model D worth considering. It is simply unmatched in regards to its power and its tone. Midi retrofit or not, it feels great, it plays great and I've bonded with it in ways that I couldn't bond with any other synthesizer. There is a reason why it is so highly regarded.

Moog makes great stuff, but there is a lot out there right now that is non-Moog that is really great also. It's a synth buyer's market right now.

[jsharpphoto]

I agree with almost all of your points. The point being, really, is that there is no WRONG Moog to get, because you will likely end up owning several. I bought a sub37 first, and in less than 9 months I had purchased two minitaurs, a voyager XL and a modest modular setup.

Now that I think about it, if you can find and afford a Voyager, buy it. You will always be able to buy a sub37 down the road. They aren't going anywhere.

[Gheddi]

Alright, those are helpfull responses! So the Sub 37 is more in my range, because I'm 16 and I could do one or two jobs and have it, while the Voyager is 4000€ on our store. I have no idea how I could reach such a huge amount of money in the next time, so I will probably be forced to buy the Sub 37. Or should I be patient and buy the Voyager? I heard they are running out. But It's not like every second person I know wants to buy a moog, also 4000€ for an instrument is anything but cheap, so they won't be running out where I live in the next time (I guess). So of what I heard the Voyager is more flexible and universal than the Sub 37, and yes, the main purpose will be ambient soundtracks, if they're dark or not is something different. Also who said that I can't change my direction of music I want to go to Anyways, it would likely take two years MINIMUM to raise that money (for the Voyager)

[EricK]

The MFB Dominion is great too, made locally. More in the price range.
Shop around. You should be able to get a voyager for less than $3k. You will likely always find that higher in a music store though.

But if you are 16, you don't have a clue as to how much money you will have available in the future to get gear. So always buy smart and buy something you will be able to grow into over the long-term. I learned very early on that if you buy student quality instruments (like horns) then you reach a point where the instrument is crap and you have to virtually start from scratch to find a good instrument because the student instrument isn't worth much.

Eric

[Flareless]

I thought I'd chime in here and muddy the waters a bit....

Have you considered going modular? Of course there's the Mother 32 to consider if you're going the Moog route but you might also consider an MU based modular (my personal choice) or even Eurorack.

This way you can start with a less expensive system to begin with, say a few oscillators, Envelope Generator(s), VCF and VCA with perhaps a few supplemental modules and then as time and your financial situation progress you can build upon the system and expand it into something extremely powerful and even more versatile.

For ambient soundtracks that you mentioned I can tell you the sounds you can produce with a modular are superb. I just spent the last half hour coming up with a haunting yet freaky drone sound which will go incredibly well with a spooky dripping water sound I came up with yesterday and sampled.

I LOVE my Sub 37 but I don't think I could reproduce these two sounds on it as easily as I created them on my modular. Check out my Lower West Side Studio link below to have a look at some of the toys I play with if you're interested.

Just something to think about

[stiiiiiiive]

Hi Gheddi.

I'll muddy even more the waters

For one, I think you can make ambient music with any synth, or guitar, or... well. So the differences between a Moog and another Moog... It would not matter to me.

For two, I'd say get one as soon as you can. If you can get the Sub37 within 3-4 months vs. 2 years for a Voyager, unless you're set on a Voyager for real, don't deprive yourself of this pleasure. I agree with Eric about crap instruments, but let's get his point right: the Sub37 is not such an instrument and you will be able to grow in it.

[Gheddi]

So portabilty is another factor for me, which is why I definitly won't buy a modular system. The Voyager is pretty heavy also, but can be carried if I got the right bag. The Sub 37 is "lighter" than the Voyager and could also be transported. Âs it looks for now I should go with the Sub, but if I have to get better equip sooner or later, I will HAVE to get the Voyager, but it will be even more expensive when I now buy the 37, because with time the price rises. So I'm still not completley hooked with one side.
Also I just love the Voyager performances on Youtube. Those things are godlike, and the Sub doesn't really have that presence, because it's more like a cool but normal instrument, while the Voyager feels more special, alive and being something completley unique...

[EricK]

Yeah, I surely wasn't implying that the Sub 37 was crap.

[Gheddi]

So everyone, I just made the choice that I will just save up some coin until I have enough for my Sub 37 (which will be around mid summer) and get it. Because it's reachable, it's good, and I can still buy bigger Moogs if I'm adult and can afford it. Sad that there's no black finish for the 37, cause I don't really like that bright wood on it. I would also go with darker wood (like the Voyager got). But anyway, I will go with the Sub 37. Maybe they will release a new edition of the Sub 37 until summer? I mean if theres a tribute edition, there must come more

Or should I still change my opinion and go for the Voyager

[EricK]

There are Voyager XLs that can be had for under 4k if you are patient enough to wait and look. The same can be said about a minimoog model D.

I paid 2999 for my Voyager/VX351.

If you went with Sub 37 you wouldn't regret it. There was one at the Stevie Wonder show that I went to a few months back and it sounded very Moogy.

Look in Reverb.com and search for Little Phatty, and then search for Slim Phatty and you can get both of those for a little more than the sub 37.

Look for micromoog also, there's one on there for about 600+ You can get a Prodigy and a Micro and go vintage.