On Prepal, Vintage Synth Explorer, and eBay

museslave · Post by **museslave** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 7:43 pm

Recently, I noticed people quoting the Vintage Synth Explorer site, Prepal's prices, and eBay.

I was told that Prepal bases their prices upon LISTED prices, not the prices of the items sold. This would explain the general inaccuracy and descrepancy of their prices. Prepal, while convenient for the most GENERAL of ballparks, is really not an accurate indication of the value of an analog or vintage synthesizer. They need to work eBay into their equation if they're going to be even remotely accurate.

Vintage Synth Explorer... somehow... USUALLY is a tad more accurate in the values of these synths... but their information is REALLY lacking. I can find at LEAST one major error on nearly every single page. I hesitate to sound like an old man, but JEEZ... these things were not written (or seem not to be written) by anyone who was even alive when these synths were being USED, let alone on the market. Admittedly, initially, I will go to that site for some VERY GENERAL info on a synth... but it is in no way a definitive resource. (not only that but they seem to favor software... which is not particularly vintage)

The truth is, there is no way to really ascertain the value of a vintage synthesizer... the market defines it... and there are different markets. I'm inclined to use eBay as a resource for the values of vintage synths... but to do that, you have to accept that wealthy people on eBay will often pay ridiculous prices for these synths... which gives the IMPRESSION that that is what they are worth. It is not necessarily an accurate portrayal of the market when studio owners are doing the bidding, as I will assume they are not the body of synthesizer buyers. (but, perhaps they are, now)

Sadly, synth prices are rising because those who want them are finding them, and have found them. 6 years ago, when I started hunting for analog synths in earnest, the prices were SO MUCH LOWER. I can remember it not being uncommon for a Minimoog to go for under $1200... and demand was high, then. There were a lot MORE of them available at any given time... in fact, at any given time there were at LEAST three. On eBay now, that is not very common. And, you're going to be lucky if you get one for under 1800... more like 2000... which is sad, because I want another. : ) I paid $1700 for mine a year ago, which I found ridiculous of myself... but I got sick of losing auctions.

Someday, when I stop complaining and apply my anger... I'm going to make a website that has in depth studies of every vintage analog synthesizer... reviews by professional and seasoned users, professionally recorded audio examples that feature the strengths of the particular synth (not sounds that some idiot thinks would sound great in techno), and a price estimation based upon what they go for in classified ads, what they go for on the internet, what they go for on eBay, and an abstract structure based upon features and functionality.

godzilla · Post by **godzilla** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:46 am

the trouble with ebay is that prices of things will vary drastically from year to year, or even in a few months.

if something sells for more than a little bit higher than usual, the demand will go through the roof and so will the price.
but then everyone who has one (save the people that want to keet it) will put it up for auction, the market gets flooded and they become cheap
it will take a while for prices to resume as no one wants to spend more for something they've recently seen go for less
then the cylce will repeat itself

ebay prices should be taken at 2-5 year averages

when things are cheap nobody wants them, it's only when people think that they might miss out that they all jump in

something like a dx 7 will never sky-rocket because there are millions of them out there

godzilla · Post by **godzilla** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:58 am

sonicstate has a recent prices box, i think this is quite a good way to judge value:

http://www.sonicstate.com/synth/moogmini.cfm

jester69 · Post by **jester69** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 10:44 am

godzilla wrote: when things are cheap nobody wants them, it's only when people think that they might miss out that they all jump in

Us electronics dudes make out like bandits though, as the posers, er new people, er, non-nerds can't fix one themselves. So, only people that know how to repair analog gear are bidding. That is a very, very, very, small pool. I overheard the guy at the local electronics place comment that they don't even publish DIY electronics hoobyist books anymore due to complete and total lack of sales. If you mix digital and analog in the same machine, such as a memory moog, or a source, or a Jupiter 8, matrix anything like that, the field gets even slimmer.

If I fix it and keep it, good for me, if I fix it, don't like it and sell it, I am getting less than an hourly rate if I had done it for someone else, but I don't loose my shirt.

ta,

Jester

godzilla · Post by **godzilla** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 11:01 am

i was talking more about trends
things being cheap because they're note "in"
but that's great for you, wish i could do that

I'd like to get a couple of DIY electronics hoobyist books. I keep looking in my uni library for this dream book that will show me how to make a modular from scratch in a few days. ahh...

i have found some cool books on synths though

museslave · Post by **museslave** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:22 pm

The problem with Sonic State is that the prices it shows are prices that were ASKING prices in ads... which is to say, they only define what someone... anyone... informed or not... wanted for their keyboard. And, a lot of the asking prices are... not good.

museslave · Post by **museslave** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:31 pm

My guess is that the prices of Minimoogs and others on that level will never decrease.

electrical_engineer_gEEk · Post by **electrical_engineer_gEEk** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:45 pm

museslave wrote:My guess is that the prices of Minimoogs and others on that level will never decrease.

I disagree....as things become more 'vintage' they become more and more difficult to repair, find parts for, etc.....at the prices that the original minimoogs are selling at, personally, I would never in a million years buy a vintage over the new voyager....it's like throwing your money away

and if moog is releasing a new low cost synth next month I doubt you will see as many prodigys & rogues selling for very high on ebay......

but i could be completely wrong.....

OysterRock · Post by **OysterRock** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 7:24 pm

electrical_engineer_gEEk wrote: and if moog is releasing a new low cost synth next month I doubt you will see as many prodigys & rogues selling for very high on ebay......

Hopefully! But Minimoog prices have gone nowhere but up since the release of the Voyager, even though the Voyager is supposed to be an update of the Mini.

MC · Post by MC » Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:56 pm

I disagree with that. Model D's averaged $2000 until the Voyager pushed them down to $1500 average. That's the trend I've been seeing on the 'bay.

OysterRock · Post by **OysterRock** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:17 am

Hmmm.... Over the last year or so most of the Minis I've seen are around or over $2000. Granted I don't check all that often.

Do a "completed listings" search on eBay. Almost all completed auctions are over $2000 with some over $2200. A non-working Mini went for over $1400!

Boeing 737-400 · Post by **Boeing 737-400** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 9:19 am

I have certainly seen an increase in Model D prices in the last two years.

museslave · Post by **museslave** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:41 am

And I would never buy a Voyager, because the Voyager's sound is far to modern, too crisp, and too functional. The Voyager and the Minimoog are two completely different synthesizers... they have a different sound, different functionality, and tend to appeal to different crowds (although there is crossover, of course).
If you're one who believes it's impossible to tell one synthesizer from another, I can't explain why, but if you concede that the Minimoog has a sound that other synthesizers (including the Voyager) lack, then THAT is the reason why I choose the Minimoog. I choose the buzziness, I choose the pitch inconsistency, I choose the limited functionality. I choose that tone that exists and is hailed in all of the recordings featuring the Minimoog.
And I don't know what eBay some of you are looking at, but I've been watching Minis for quite some time... and the Voyager might have had an impact on Minis when it first came out, but not since. They are two very different synthesizers. Minis are pushing $2000 now.
And as for parts becoming more rare... how much more rare do you think they're going to get? The more rare parts, etc. get... the more VALUABLE synthesizers get... can I draw your attention to the Prophet 5?? It's not like people are going to say "wow, I love Minimoogs, but they're so rare... there's no way I'm going to buy one." ; )