Coming back... 3k for a new select series?

Tips and techniques for Minimoog Analog Synthesizers
Spumoni
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Coming back... 3k for a new select series?

Post by Spumoni » Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:44 am

Regrettably, I ended up selling my Voyager select series (walnut / indigo) a few years back right after I got it back from warranty repairs. It looked like Godzilla took it apart with a can opener - I never got over it and eventually sold it.

Now I'm kicking myself. I just got the Prophet 6, and I love it... but I'm still longing for that Moog tone. I'm considering the Sub 37, but I know deep down I will only end up with another Voyager. I've been out of the mix for a while, so can anyone tell me if I'm making a bad choice getting a discontinued signature series (NEW) for about 3k? I really like the backlighting. I found a walnut version just like my old one, but they're asking $3500.

Any guidance would be helpful.

Thanks!

EricK
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Re: Coming back... 3k for a new select series?

Post by EricK » Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:39 pm

I've seen used XLs as low as 3k. I would look in that direction. The only thing about the select is the backlighting which is going to need replacements over the long term. (Select owner here)
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Spumoni
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Re: Coming back... 3k for a new select series?

Post by Spumoni » Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:25 pm

Thanks for that input. Very Interesting.. I definitely prefer NOT to buy used, but what you're saying about the backlighting scares me.

Did you have to get yours replaced? Is this common for all select series?

Thanks again!

EricK
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Re: Coming back... 3k for a new select series?

Post by EricK » Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:46 pm

I haven't gotten mine replaced, but the backlighting only has 1000 hours and the next time I get around to it I am going to shut it off from the inside. If you are buying a Voyager for the backlighting only then down the road we both will have problems. However, there is nothing wrong with buying a used instrument. You can buy new cabinets, new keys, new everything except for maybe the touch surface. And certainly Moog will service your voyager to make sure that it is factory spec. But yeah, that is the downside to the select series.

There was a guy on the Moog Fan Club facebook page selling an XL for 3000...if I was in the Voyager market that is the direction that I would go. Maybe even a demo unit from a music store or even a B-Stock.

I used to feel the same way about buying used stuff but I purchased a fooger from a forum member here because the price was too good and the model was long since discontinued.

We're all Moog lovers in the long run and used eventually becomes vintage, right?


The way the Voyager market is, the select series shouldn't fetch any more than the performer editions.


I would say this though, with the problems associated with some of the recent Voyagers with the faulty Texas Instrument IC problems, you might prefer getting a unit that is a few years older unless you can verify from Moog that the Voyager you are looking at doesn't have those, otherwise you will have to spend 800 bucks on a new analog board.


On another note though, I paid 3850 for my model D. If you are patient you might want to think about going that route. I doubt that with as many voyagers on the market you will ever find yourself in a hard-pressed situation to find one.
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Gorillafoxi
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Re: Coming back... 3k for a new select series?

Post by Gorillafoxi » Fri Nov 13, 2015 5:40 am

I'm with EricK on this. I'm a Select owner and absolutely adore the piece, but if you're going secondhand I would just nab an XL. I've seen some Select pieces going online for $2k which is great, but may as well go the extra mile if you're considering getting a CP and VX further down the road.

EricK
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Re: Coming back... 3k for a new select series?

Post by EricK » Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:46 pm

The XL, in the long run, will likely be much more rare and therefore more collectable.
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Spumoni
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Re: Coming back... 3k for a new select series?

Post by Spumoni » Sat Nov 14, 2015 11:45 am

I agree about the XL, but this size is a killer. My thinking is no matter what Moog comes out with next, even if it's the ultimate Poly, the Voyager is going to be a keeper since it was Bob Moog's actual design.

I left a message for tech support at Moog on Friday to ask a couple questions, but they haven't called back.

As for the back lighting, I can't remember what happens when you turn the lights all the way down. Do they not go completely off? Also, if I get a performer edition that only has the illuminated mod wheels, will there be a lifespan on those as well?

Thanks again for all the input. It's truly helpful with these decisions.

Regards,
Tony

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oyarsa
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Re: Coming back... 3k for a new select series?

Post by oyarsa » Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:00 pm

Worrying about the backlighting in the Select is a bit overblown, IMHO. First of all, the life of the light is extended greatly by keeping the brightness down (although even on the dimmest setting it is on slightly). Secondly it is a very simple fix to open the back (5 screws) and push the switch to off. The Select models, well maintained, will hold their value over time due to their uniqueness and awesome stage appearance.

EricK
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Re: Coming back... 3k for a new select series?

Post by EricK » Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:30 am

It's not overblown (no pun intended) when the value of your synth is greatly diminished because you have to proclaim to the buyer that the backlighting is permanently nonfunctional. That would kind of make the unique stage appearance sales pitch fall on deaf ears, yes?

Planning for long-term maintenance is why so many of the vintage Moogs are still functional. The only way to have the backlighting serviced is a return trip to the factory.
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Vsyevolod
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Re: Coming back... 3k for a new select series?

Post by Vsyevolod » Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:13 am

FWIW, not all SS Voyagers have the backlighting 'always on a little'. Mine turns all the way off.

Stephen




.

Spumoni
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Re: Coming back... 3k for a new select series?

Post by Spumoni » Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:43 pm

Interesting about the backlight. I think I remember mine going all the way off when the knob was turned down. Either way it sounds pretty easy to switch off.

I'm considering the tiger oak select series from Humbucker Music. They seem pretty fair at 2999 for a select series. I'm assuming they are later models that are past that faulty TI issue. The s/n's are 2500 and up. Should that be safe?

I can't seem to get a call back from Moog tech support. Slightly disappointed...

Gorillafoxi
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Re: Coming back... 3k for a new select series?

Post by Gorillafoxi » Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:00 am

What are your questions exactly? Maybe we can help out.

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oyarsa
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Re: Coming back... 3k for a new select series?

Post by oyarsa » Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:52 am

Spumoni.....The Select Model serial numbers affected were 829-1724. You are safe from the recall issue.

Spumoni
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Re: Coming back... 3k for a new select series?

Post by Spumoni » Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:10 pm

Thank you for the info! I will make a note of the s/n's to avoid. I'm quite certain the select series I bought a few years ago was in this range.

I guess the last question I have is; if I get the performer with the blue wheel, will I have the same LED light lifespan issue with that as well, or did this only pertain to the backlight panel?

Thanks again for all the help.

Still disappointed Moog wouldn't even return my call, especially since I'm a repeat customer.

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mayidunk
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Re: Coming back... 3k for a new select series?

Post by mayidunk » Thu Nov 19, 2015 10:13 pm

LEDs dim slowly over time, losing 30% of their light output within the first third of their estimated lifespan. The amount of time before they reach that point is known as their L70 rating, and can range anywhere from 50,000 hrs. to 100,000 hrs., depending on the design of the circuit they're in, and their operating temperature.

If my math is correct, if your synth is powered up for 4 hours a day, 5 days a week, it could take anywhere from 48 to 96 years before your LEDs dimmed by 30%. Even if you had it powered up 8 hours a day, 7 days a week, it could still take from 17 to 34 years before they reached their L70 point. By that time the light output of those LEDs will still be 70% of what they were when they were brand new, while most other types of lights will have long since failed completely!

I own a Voyager Performer with the blue wheel LEDs; I think we're good for the time being.

Of course, as always, YMMV. :mrgreen:

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