Sub Phatty Editor for Sub 37

Everything Sub.
Post Reply
Lucas_Paris
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:00 pm
Location: Paris, France

Sub Phatty Editor for Sub 37

Post by Lucas_Paris » Sat Aug 15, 2015 6:48 am

Hello All,

This is my first contribution to the Moog forum...

I bought a few months ago a Sub 37 and like everybody else I have been waiting impatiently for the Sub 37 Editor to become available. In order to already start using my Sub 37 with my DAW, I created a software interface allowing to use the Sub Phatty Editor together with the Sub 37. Since I am very happy with the result, I decided to make it available for all Sub 37 users via this forum so that each of you may profit from it as long as we do not yet have the full Sub 37 Editor.

A short summary of the features:
- integration of Sub 37 settings in DAW environment with automatic transfer into the Sub 37 when DAW project is loaded
- management and editing of software presets, two-way real time control, VST automation and MIDI transfer from DAW to Sub 37
- visualization of the knob positions for any Sub 37 patch by loading the presets in the software Editor
- existing Sub Phatty presets can be transferred into the Sub 37 or used as starting point for creating new presets
- Duo Mode parameters can be recorded as part of the preset in the Editor
- creation of random presets thanks to the Random function in the Editor
- works with stand-alone Sub Phatty Editor and Sub Phatty VST/VSTi, both for 32 and 64 bits

Unfortunately there are also a few limitations:
- the interface has been created with Flowstone which means Windows only... no MAC version available
- using the Sub Phatty Editor limits the storage of patches to the Sub Phatty subset of the Sub 37 preset structure. However in practice this is not a major problem, since what is basically missing are only two parts: the Arpeggiator (when connected to a DAW this will be not a main issue since you will use the DAW instead) and one of the two Modulation sections (the Editor can accomodate either the MOD1 or MOD2 settings, see below for more details).

The installation is not very complicated. First of all you will need the attached interface (SUB37VST.exe file) and the loopMIDI virtual MIDI port utility (see http://www.tobias-erichsen.de/software/loopmidi.html). I tested a few other virtual MIDI ports as well but the only one supporting 100% reliable the exchange of MIDI Sysex info is loopMIDI so I strongly suggests to use only this (the interface is pre-programmed to use the loopMIDI ports 1 and 2). Finally you need the Sub Phatty Editor that you can find here: the improved version 1.1.0 (http://forum.moogmusic.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=21587) and the beta version 1.1.1 which offers a better working 32-bit versions (http://forum.moogmusic.com/viewtopic.ph ... 0&start=15).

In order to get it all up and running, you should follow these guidelines (see also attached screen shots of interface and Editor settings):
- make sure loopMIDI is installed and started (with at least two MIDI ports 1 and 2)
- connect and switch on your Sub 37 (but do NOT switch on your Sub Phatty if you have one...). Important: the settings of your Sub 37 should not have been changed into using NRPN MIDI codes (it should be set to the default which is standard MIDI CC codes)
- put the interface (SUB37VST.exe file) in any folder and run it, you should see as selected in/out MIDI ports the first two loopMIDI ports and the Sub 37 ports
- start the Sub Phatty Editor (either as VST or VSTi in your DAW, or as stand-alone file). The first time you will get a warning that the Sub Phatty Ports cannot be found, but this warning can be suppressed for afterwards in the setup menu. Also you will find a 'hardware disconnected' message inside the Editor but this is normal (the Editor cannot see any Sub Phatty and will not know that there is a Sub 37 - that is where the interface is for). In the settings of the Editor you should check the following:
* as MIDI Input you should select loopMIDI Port 2
* as MIDI Output you should select loopMIDI Port 1
* you should switch on 'Echo MIDI from Host' (to allow notes and other MIDI info from your DAW to pass through)
* you should switch off the 'MIDI Port Warning'
* no need to change any settings at the right side (this will have no effect anyway).

Now you are done...!!! Check if the communication works by changing the position of the filter knob on your Sub 37, the filter knob of the software Editor should now move in the same way... then click repeatedly on the Legato button completely at the left of the Editor and you should see the Legato button on your Sub 37 lighting on and off...

You can verify whether there is communication in both ways via the 4 LEDs on the interface (VRX = VST Editor Receive, VTX = VST Editor Transmit, SRX = Sub 37 Receive, STX = Sub 37 Transmit). You can also see whether you are working in 7-bit or 14-bit accuracy. Normally you do not have to change this on the interface because the software will automatically follow your selection on the Sub 37 MIDI Out Filters Menu (you can chose between 7-bit and 14-bit). If you use 14-bit precision then it will need more bandwidth, and if you might have communication errors due to using 14-bit you can change back to 7-bit in the Sub 37 menu. The interface will always start up in the 7-bit setting and as soon as it sees any 14-bit value being transmitted then it will change to 14-bit accuracy for both directions of communication. Once all is set up you do not need to access or even to see the SUB37VST interface: all interaction can be done via the Editor (see below) and the interface just has to be running in the background. Only in case you switch off and then again on your Sub 37, it might be necessary to stop and restart the interface or at least to refresh the MIDI port settings.

Finally a few explanations on how to use the Sub Phatty Editor to handle your Sub 37:
- you can upload a preset from the Sub 37 to the Editor by double clicking the 'Vel to Time' knob in the lower part completely at the right side (do NOT turn the knob, only double click - this works both in FILTER and AMPLIFIER mode)
- you can download a preset from the Editor to the Sub 37 in 3 different ways:
* saving the preset anywhere on your PC (use Save button) and opening it again (use Load)
* saving the project in your DAW (when using the VST version of the Editor) and re-opening it
* (when you have saved several presets in one folder) by browsing presets via the up/down buttons or by selecting the name
- the Fast Decay knob in FILTER mode (Editor) corresponds to Duo Mode (Sub 37)
- the LFO KB Amount knob (Editor) corresponds to DUO KB CTRL (Sub 37): min position = neither, mid position = LO, max position = HI
- the Fast Decay knob in AMPLIFIER mode (Editor) selects whether the knobs and settings in the MOD section of the Editor are linked to MOD1 or MOD2 of the Sub 37: Fast Decay Off = MOD1, Fast Decay On = MOD2. This applies both for uploading (the Editor will copy the settings of MOD1 or MOD2 depending on the status of the Fast Decay switch) and downloading (the Sub 37 will receive the MOD Settings of the Editor in either MOD1 or MOD2 corresponding to the Fast Decay switch whereas the not selected MOD1 or MOD2 will be reset after download). Important: be aware not to confuse the Fast Decay switch in AMPLIFIER mode (used for MOD1 / MOD2 selection) with the Fast Decay Switch in FILTER Mode, which is used for Duo Mode...
- all other knobs and buttons of the Editor (except for the Librarian button that can be used to manage the Editor presets stored on the PC) correspond to their equivalents on the Sub 37. In some cases the functions of the Sub 37 are limited to the available choices in the Editor (e.g. Wave Mod Destination or Pitch Mod Osc Select) which might together with one missing MOD section slightly change the sound of a preset after uploading to the Editor and downloading again back to the Sub 37
- some knobs are bipolar on the Sub 37 whereas the Editor shows them as normal knobs, however you can use them still in the same way with 0 at the mid position
- in real time editing a few buttons will react only in one way: when changing Glide Gated/Loop/Latch (Sub 37) the Editor equivalents Gated/Repeat/Gate Source will not follow but they DO work in the other direction (from Editor to Sub 37), and they work fine in both directions for uploading and downloading (this is due to the fact that standard MIDI CC codes are not available for all buttons on the Sub 37)
- if I forgot anything or if you have any questions or suggestions, please let me know.

Sorry if all this was a bit long... but now it is time to enjoy your Sub 37 with Editor! Happy music and many thanks to Moog for their great sounding products!!
Attachments
Sub_37_VST_Interface_v1_0.zip
Sub 37 VST Interface & Settings
(2.6 MiB) Downloaded 182 times

KincaidDesigns
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:50 pm

Re: Sub Phatty Editor for Sub 37

Post by KincaidDesigns » Mon Aug 17, 2015 2:26 pm

Wow... works pretty darned good! I had a little trouble at first, but I restarted the sub 37 and redid the midi ports and it all started working. Good job and many thanks

Steve

paterrob
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu May 21, 2015 11:46 am

Re: Sub Phatty Editor for Sub 37

Post by paterrob » Mon Aug 17, 2015 2:53 pm

Thanks very much. I received an email from Moog last week saying that they do not know when the Sub37 will be available, there is no ETA.

dieter198
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:50 pm

Re: Sub Phatty Editor for Sub 37

Post by dieter198 » Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:13 pm

I want to say thankyou for your work and for sharing it!
Moog Sub37, Windows7 64, Cubase 8.5

bmckeen
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:25 pm

Re: Sub Phatty Editor for Sub 37

Post by bmckeen » Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:02 pm

has anyone configured this in Cubase as a VST? having problems trying to figure it out. Also when i start the app all i get is the interface settings window...any thoughts?
windows 8 64 bit
cubase 8.0
VST
Brian McKeen
[email protected]

Lucas_Paris
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:00 pm
Location: Paris, France

Re: Sub Phatty Editor for Sub 37

Post by Lucas_Paris » Sat Aug 22, 2015 1:49 pm

bmckeen wrote:has anyone configured this in Cubase as a VST? having problems trying to figure it out. Also when i start the app all i get is the interface settings window...any thoughts?
I did not test this with Cubase (not using it myself). Did you try to use the interface with the stand-alone version of the Sub Phatty Editor (included in the V1.1.0 download)? If it works with the stand-alone version but not with the VST version inside Cubase, it could well be Cubase related (btw I found an older post on the forum that refers to issues when using the Sub Phatty VST Editor in combination with Cubase, you can check it here: http://forum.moogmusic.com/viewtopic.ph ... or#p141004). If it does not work with the stand-alone version either you probably have a setup issue.

bmckeen
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:25 pm

Re: Sub Phatty Editor for Sub 37

Post by bmckeen » Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:21 am

I can't seem to get the standalone version of the the editor. I don't see it in the V 1.1.0 download package and on the Phatty page you have to register your Phatty to get the key to download the editor. Am I missing something?
windows 8 64 bit
cubase 8.0
VST
Brian McKeen
[email protected]

Lucas_Paris
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:00 pm
Location: Paris, France

Re: Sub Phatty Editor for Sub 37

Post by Lucas_Paris » Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:11 am

bmckeen wrote:I can't seem to get the standalone version of the the editor. I don't see it in the V 1.1.0 download package and on the Phatty page you have to register your Phatty to get the key to download the editor. Am I missing something?
Did you read my explanation about how to install the interface + Sub Phatty Editor? In there you will find the posts with download links - elsewhere on this forum - to get the Sub Phatty Editor incl. stand-alone version (it is in a folder called 'Editor standalone exe' inside the V1.1.0 ZIP file).

I will repeat the relevant part once again:
The installation is not very complicated. First of all you will need the attached interface (SUB37VST.exe file) and the loopMIDI virtual MIDI port utility (see http://www.tobias-erichsen.de/software/loopmidi.html). I tested a few other virtual MIDI ports as well but the only one supporting 100% reliable the exchange of MIDI Sysex info is loopMIDI so I strongly suggests to use only this (the interface is pre-programmed to use the loopMIDI ports 1 and 2). Finally you need the Sub Phatty Editor that you can find here: the improved version 1.1.0 (viewtopic.php?f=7&t=21587) and the beta version 1.1.1 which offers a better working 32-bit versions (viewtopic.php?f=7&t=22250&start=15).

bmckeen
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:25 pm

Re: Sub Phatty Editor for Sub 37

Post by bmckeen » Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:31 pm

sorry, missed the link and got it now....got it working but I had to set the MIDI Input and Output settings to Moog Sub 37 to get it to work....it didn't work when i had it set to port 1 and 2 as suggested...thanks
windows 8 64 bit
cubase 8.0
VST
Brian McKeen
[email protected]

delmarh
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:14 pm

Re: Sub Phatty Editor for Sub 37

Post by delmarh » Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:59 pm

Thank you so much for your work on this. I have a quick question...

How do I get the software editor to actually show the settings of a current Sub37 patch?

Double clicking the Vel to Time doesn't actually change the software editor knobs. I do have 2 way communication between the editor and the hardware. If I change a knob in the editor it controls the hardware and vice versa. I just can't seem to get the editor to "grab" and display the current settings on the Sub37. The editor only updates the visuals when I adjust a knob on the hardware.

Also, the Octive knob for both Oscillators within the editor only 'turn' between 2' and 8'. The editor will actually change both oscillators to any 4 settings, but the display only switches between 2.


Any advice? My main reason for wanting a software editor is to see how the patches in the hardware are created (as a learning tool).

Thanks.

Lucas_Paris
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:00 pm
Location: Paris, France

Re: Sub Phatty Editor for Sub 37

Post by Lucas_Paris » Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:02 am

delmarh wrote:Thank you so much for your work on this. I have a quick question...

How do I get the software editor to actually show the settings of a current Sub37 patch?

Double clicking the Vel to Time doesn't actually change the software editor knobs. I do have 2 way communication between the editor and the hardware. If I change a knob in the editor it controls the hardware and vice versa. I just can't seem to get the editor to "grab" and display the current settings on the Sub37. The editor only updates the visuals when I adjust a knob on the hardware.

Also, the Octive knob for both Oscillators within the editor only 'turn' between 2' and 8'. The editor will actually change both oscillators to any 4 settings, but the display only switches between 2.


Any advice? My main reason for wanting a software editor is to see how the patches in the hardware are created (as a learning tool).

Thanks.
When double clicking the Vel to Time knob, are you sure not to turn the knob? Both times clicking should be done with exactly the same knob position and without moving the knob, otherwise it will not work... And are you using the loopMIDI virtual ports? If not, the transmission of Sysex data (needed to load the preset) might not function well.

I checked the Octave knobs at my side and they both work without any problem for all 4 positions, in both directions. What is the 'display' you are referring to? Can you explain the issue in more detail?

One more question linked to both issues: what is the firmware version of your Sub 37?

delmarh
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:14 pm

Re: Sub Phatty Editor for Sub 37

Post by delmarh » Wed Sep 02, 2015 5:59 pm

Lucas_Paris wrote:
delmarh wrote:Thank you so much for your work on this. I have a quick question...

How do I get the software editor to actually show the settings of a current Sub37 patch?

Double clicking the Vel to Time doesn't actually change the software editor knobs. I do have 2 way communication between the editor and the hardware. If I change a knob in the editor it controls the hardware and vice versa. I just can't seem to get the editor to "grab" and display the current settings on the Sub37. The editor only updates the visuals when I adjust a knob on the hardware.

Also, the Octive knob for both Oscillators within the editor only 'turn' between 2' and 8'. The editor will actually change both oscillators to any 4 settings, but the display only switches between 2.


Any advice? My main reason for wanting a software editor is to see how the patches in the hardware are created (as a learning tool).

Thanks.
When double clicking the Vel to Time knob, are you sure not to turn the knob? Both times clicking should be done with exactly the same knob position and without moving the knob, otherwise it will not work... And are you using the loopMIDI virtual ports? If not, the transmission of Sysex data (needed to load the preset) might not function well.

I checked the Octave knobs at my side and they both work without any problem for all 4 positions, in both directions. What is the 'display' you are referring to? Can you explain the issue in more detail?

One more question linked to both issues: what is the firmware version of your Sub 37?
Thanks for your reply..

I am running the latest firmware on the Sub37.

I am quite sure that I am double-clicking (& not turning) the Vel to Time knob.

Yes, I am using loopMIDI.

What I mean by the display not updating is this: within the software editor, when I double-click to 'pull' the current settings from the Sub37, no changes occur to the software editor knobs, switches, etc.

I do have 2-way communication between the hardware and the software editor. When I manually turn a knob in the software editor, the Sub37 responds accordingly. Also, when I turn a knob on the Sub37, the corresponding knob in the software editor responds.

Also, when I build a sound in the software editor, save it and then attempt to upload it the the Sub37, the Sub37 does not reflect my patch. I have tried uploading the patch to one of the first 4 banks (using only one of the first 10 slots) to make sure I am not attempting to upload to a bank that the software editor doesn't support (since the Sub37 has 16x16 banks as opposed to 4x16).

All I want in the software editor is to see how Moog built the presets (I am a modular newbie).

Once again, thank you so very much for your assistance.

Lucas_Paris
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:00 pm
Location: Paris, France

Re: Sub Phatty Editor for Sub 37

Post by Lucas_Paris » Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:25 am

delmarh wrote:Thanks for your reply..

I am running the latest firmware on the Sub37.

I am quite sure that I am double-clicking (& not turning) the Vel to Time knob.

Yes, I am using loopMIDI.

What I mean by the display not updating is this: within the software editor, when I double-click to 'pull' the current settings from the Sub37, no changes occur to the software editor knobs, switches, etc.

I do have 2-way communication between the hardware and the software editor. When I manually turn a knob in the software editor, the Sub37 responds accordingly. Also, when I turn a knob on the Sub37, the corresponding knob in the software editor responds.

Also, when I build a sound in the software editor, save it and then attempt to upload it the the Sub37, the Sub37 does not reflect my patch. I have tried uploading the patch to one of the first 4 banks (using only one of the first 10 slots) to make sure I am not attempting to upload to a bank that the software editor doesn't support (since the Sub37 has 16x16 banks as opposed to 4x16).

All I want in the software editor is to see how Moog built the presets (I am a modular newbie).

Once again, thank you so very much for your assistance.

Do you use the VST version of the Sub Phatty editor (within a DAW) or the Stand-Alone version? If you are using the VST version, can you check if you have the same issues when using the Stand-Alone version (see previous posts for details where to find that)?

If the double-clicking of the Vel to Time knob still does not work you can try a second way to upload the data from the Sub 37 to the Sub Phatty Editor: by using the 'Buffer Send' option in the MIDI Sysex menu of the Sub 37 (for details see page 35-37 of the Sub 37 Manual). First make sure the Sub Phatty Editor can communicate with the Sub 37 in both ways via the Interface. Select the patch you want to upload, press the MIDI button on the Sub 37 and go to the MIDI Sysex submenu. Select 'Buffer Snd' and use the 'up' or 'down' keys to start the transmission. This will do exactly the same as is supposed to do the double-clicking of the Vel to Time knob on the Editor but it is less convenient.

I do not understand what you are meaning with the 10 slots or the 4x16 banks. The Sub Phatty has 4 banks with 4 slots each, but you do not need this to download patches to the Sub 37. You can download a preset from the Editor to the Sub 37 in the following ways:
- by saving the preset anywhere on your PC (use Save button of the Sub Phatty Editor) and opening it again (use Load button)
- by saving the project in your DAW (when using the VST version of the Editor) and re-opening it
- (when you have saved several presets on your PC) by browsing presets via the up/down buttons or by selecting the name

If after all this it still does not work, I suggest that you send me a PM with your Skype login name and time zone, so that I can help you on-line to get it working.

Underground Techno
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 11:45 am

Re: Sub Phatty Editor for Sub 37

Post by Underground Techno » Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:15 am

This seems cool but unfortunately i'm on OSX. Its funny how you managed to make this yet a big company like moog still hasn't got around to it. They really are taking their time - it's ridiculous. The saving settings with your DAW project is pretty awesome.

stewdio
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:10 am
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: Sub Phatty Editor for Sub 37

Post by stewdio » Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:22 am

Underground Techno wrote:...Its funny how you managed to make this yet a big company like moog still hasn't got around to it....
It's funny how you think Moog is a 'big' company.
[email protected]
stewcrookes.com
~ all meters ~ all red ~ all the time ~

Post Reply