Ondes Martinot emulation

mrbill · Post by **mrbill** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 9:58 pm

Does anybody have any ideas on how to modify the Theremin sound to approximate the sound of an Ondes Martinot? Some sort of stomp pedal(s) on the Theremin output would be the easiest solution. From listening to Messian recordings, its seems that the Ondes has a funny harmonic structure that just a simple tube overdrive won't emulate, but the playing characteristics should be familiar to anyone who can operate a Theremin... I'm looking for a reliable solution for live performance. Thanks in advance.

Don · Post by **Don** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 1:14 am

If you can't find information on how to do this, consider getting one:

http://www.chez.com/thomasbloch/engONDES.htm
Maurice MARTENOT (1898 - 1980) found the principle of Ondes Martenot (sometimes named by mistake : ondes Martinot or Martenot Waves in English), when, as a serviceman in radio transmissions during the first world war, he noticed «the purity of the vibrations produced by the lamps of a condenser whose intensity can be made to vary». It was one of the first electric instruments in the world and the only one of that time to have given rise to a vast repertoire and to be still played today. Maurice MARTENOT was also a cellist and the inventor, with his sister, of a method of artistical education. He was above all interested in the musical means offered by electricity and not so much by research in sound. He started doing research work for ondes Martenot in 1919. But he did not present the instrument to the public until May 1928 at Paris Opera. His triumph was followed by a world tour.
Seven successive specimens made by Maurice MARTENOT were born, each one bringing innovations. The bases of the last instrument, transistorised, still played and taught in about ten Music Academies (France, Canada) were fixed in 1975. The building of Ondes Martenot stopped in 1988. His son Jean Louis then started working on a digital instrument. Finally, Ambro OLIVA and the firm SEAM has finalized an improved instrument avalaible since 2001.

SEAM
9-11 bis rue Jean Jaurès
95130 le Plessis-Bouchard
FAX: 01 34 15 66 14

fridgebuzzz · Post by **fridgebuzzz** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 6:10 pm

I can't find out where one can get a L'ondea. Or how much they are. Any ideas?

sundaeclubber · Post by **sundaeclubber** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 4:07 am

Analogue Systems do a controller based on the Ondes. The French Connection...

Tempted to fix one up to my VCS3.....

HRx

bizarre · Post by **bizarre** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 6:38 pm

in moog to modulate V of Arturia, exists preset of Martenot Waves, can be unloaded from the Web of Arturia. the author is Chris Naegellen and is gratuitous includes the Theremin and Tannerin

http://www.arturia.com/en/moog/mmpresets.php

saludos.

nicholas d. kent · Post by **nicholas d. kent** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:48 pm

I was lucky enough to play one a few minutes once. Lets see. First off the basic sound is merely a sine wave (unlike a classic Theremin), but then, if you are using a real one the sound usually comes out of custom speakers, sometimes more than one, and some are quite exotic - for instance with strings that resonate stretched over them.

There is a left had drawer with some ability to choose different tone colors (and I assume which speakers are being used if you have several) - that's an area I'm curious about - what exactly is going on in the left hand drawer? I kind of remember hearing an answer but I've forgotten if there were any more details.

Anyway the Arturia Moog patch is quite simple, it just gives you a sort of impression of an ondes using portamento and sine waves.

I think the Analogue Systems "French Connection" keyboard is a cool controller (no sound of it's own) but it would be misleading to think that getting one you'd have an ondes martinot. What you will have though, is the thing you see Radiohead playing in live videos and it does have the ring you can use to slide the pitch.

The real thing has smaller than full size keys and the whole keyboard mechanism can rock left and right a little to manually create vibrato. Correct me if I'm wrong but I doubt the Analogue Systems French Connection does any of that. Then you have a ring attached to some wires pulled fairly tight and that slides on sort of a track. You can use these indents and the keys to figure out the note you want to land on. Pulling the ring of course will slide the pitch and you'd control the loudness with your other hand (in a general way like a Theremin).

Anyway, as you might have figured out, there was some classical music that's considered culturally important (especially by Messaien) and occasional new pieces so that's the main demand to make sure a few are out there and working. Not to degrade the Theremin, but it was never a consumer or hobby oriented instrument so there aren't many of them out there or any desire of those French builders to make anything an electronic musician could hope to afford. That said I was talking to someone who got hold of a couple in various conditions from a major instrument rental place which was going out of business. Presumably they were renting them out to the local orchestras and recording sessions back in the 50s or something.

You can hear it playing the lead melody in Maurice Jarre's score to "Passage to India" and curiously but wonderfully on Elmer Bernstein's score to "The Field". His "Ghostbusters" score would be more typical as to what one expects, though I'm sure many listening thought they were hearing Theremin.

bizarre · Post by **bizarre** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:46 am

In the first place, I apologize by my dominion for the language ingles, I do not know it and I must use the translator of google to read the messages and to write them (I speak as they tarzan). Logically the Arturia Moog can sound just as theremin nor martenot, they are not it and no other analogical sintetizador can do it. But it is the similarity more, unless samplers is used and either they do not obtain it. I do not know "Ghostbusters", but if who is Messaien.

A greeting and thanks.

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En primer lugar, me disculpo por mi dominio del idioma ingles, lo desconozco y tengo que utilizar el traductor de google para leer los mensajes y escribirlos ( hablo como tarzan ).

Lógicamente el Arturia Moog puede sonar igual que un theremin ni un martenot, no lo son y ningún otro sintetizador analógico lo puede hacer.

Pero es lo más parecido, a no ser que se utilice samplers y tampoco lo consiguen.

Desconozco "Ghostbusters", pero si se quien es Messaien.

Un saludo y gracias.

nicholas d. kent · Post by **nicholas d. kent** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:55 pm

Desconozco "Ghostbusters", pero si se quien es Messaien.

I mentioned Ghostbusters because you can hear real Ondes Martenot in the soundtrack by Elmer Bernstein.

Olivier Messaien wrote some music for Ondes Martenot. Turangalîla is his most famous piece for symphony and you can hear Ondes in it. He's considered one of the important classical music composers of the middle of the 20th Century. His wife's sister Jeanne Loriod was the most famous Ondes Martenot performer.

bizarre · Post by **bizarre** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 4:07 pm

Varese incorporated two Martenot waves in the score of Equatorial. Was used in the decades of the 30 and the 40 by Milhaud, Koechlin, Honegger, Boulez and Jolivet.

un saludo.

nicholas d. kent · Post by **nicholas d. kent** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:40 am

bizarre wrote:Varese incorporated two Martenot waves in the score of Equatorial. Was used in the decades of the 30 and the 40 by Milhaud, Koechlin, Honegger, Boulez and Jolivet.

un saludo.

Actually Varese had Leon Theremin build two custom instruments for him. Both men were based in New York at the time and afaik no ondes martenot were available to Varese at that time. Anyway the point was it was not originally composed for the ondes. Later on Ondes Martenot were commonly substituted given the unavilability of the custom instruments or Theremin for that matter.

On the relatively recent Riccardo Chailly "Varèse - The Complete Works" what sounds a whole lot like a programmed digital simulation was used -- but as I recall they were kind of obscure in their notes as to exactly what you were hearing other than it wasn't an ondes. But you can in fact here ondes on most recordings of the piece from the last few decades.

I guess as to the original question about making you theremin sound like an ondes, first off try to get it to produce sine waves then try to find some sort of reverb that sounds non-digital. Maybe making some sort of artwork that you can slide your pitch hand along would help since a characteristic of the ondes I guess would be more of a linear pitch change with the ability to instantly stop rather than the looser results made by adjusting your hand in more or less midair (depending on your existing technique).

bizarre · Post by **bizarre** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:09 pm

I thank for the answer, but it is very difficult to translate the long messages and with complex vocabulary.

I will buy the CD of "Varèse - The Complete Works" to listen to the effect that you comment.

With respect to the emulators, if Arturia has been able to do something correct with modular and the minimoog, why not to do martenot?

A greeting.

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agradezco la respuesta, pero es muy difícil traducir los mensajes largos y con vocabulario complejo.

compraré el cd de "Varèse - The Complete Works" para escuchar el efecto que comentas.

Respecto a los emuladores, si Arturia ha conseguido hacer algo correcto con el modular y el mini, ¿por qué no hacer un martenot?

Un saludo.

nicholas d. kent · Post by **nicholas d. kent** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:55 pm

bizarre wrote:I thank for the answer, but it is very difficult to translate the long messages and with complex vocabulary.

I will buy the CD of "Varèse - The Complete Works" to listen to the effect that you comment.

With respect to the emulators, if Arturia has been able to do something correct with modular and the minimoog, why not to do martenot?

"Ecuatorial" in "Varèse - The Complete Works" has a modern simulation of a no longer existing instrument. My first impression is it sounded too digital but you may have a different opinion. All other recordings I know of of this piece use Ondes instead of the Theremin instruments.

I think the problem with creating an Ondes VSTi is probably similar to making a Theremin VSTi. The pitch, vibrato and envalope in the case of the theremin are controlled with a unique physical device. Just creating the waveform playing a pitch (like on a minimoog) is only part of what makes the instrument sound like it does.

Though I guess it would be interesting to have some of the very esoteric speakers that an Ondes uses modeled for use with other sounds.

bizarre · Post by **bizarre** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:17 pm

Listening to this version of Equatorial, I ignore since they simulate ondes, I have not noticed no difference. In it notes of the book, the list of instrumentalist is not credited to anybody or is mentioned if in this piece have executed martenot, or two. Even so I think that it must of being real, but, how it can be fact? by means of a sequence? engraving? simulated?.

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Escuchando esta versión de Ecuatorial, ignoro como habrán simulado el ondes, no he notado ninguna diferencia. En la notas del libreto, la lista de instrumentistas no se acredita a nadie ni se menciona si en esta pieza han ejecutado un martenot, o dos. Aun así pienso que debe de ser real, si no ¿cómo puede estar hecho?, ¿mediante una secuencia?, ¿grabado? ¿simulado?