Sub 37 Firmware 1.0.3 Bugs

[BrufordRules]

I have updated the firmware to 1.0.3 but the problem with the PANEL button is still there.

After pressing the PANEL button some parameters are not properly read. The LFO's Waveforms and the Oscillators' Octaves for example. I can't assure you all other parameters are perfectly recalled.

Cheers

[Amos]

Yes, I have not fixed this yet. It will definitely be fixed in the next firmware release.
I think the issue is only if the switches have not been touched since turning on the synth; if you move the switches, I am fairly certain that PANEL will then report the actual physical positions (even if you've changed presets since moving the switches).

Of course this should work all the time, without requiring the switches to be moved. And it will, soon.

[BrufordRules]

Thank you so much for your reply Amos.

[apesma]

heya

i'm still having issues with the seq/arp after updating to 103. during play both the sequencer and arpeggiator occasionally get stuck on single note drones which require stopping and resetting the seq/arp.
normal?

[Amos]

normal?

that's not normal in the sense of "that's an intentional feature" but I don't think it's just you.
That's another of the top items I'll be looking at for the next update. Thanks for the report!

[apesma]

thanks man. awesome synth btw

[BrufordRules]

Hello,

I don't know if this is a bug or I am doing something wrong. I configured one of my MIDI controllers for changing the MOD’s sixth modulation sources and destinations of both Modulation Busses based in the NRPN chart in page 50 on the manual. But it didn't work. The SUB 37 receives the data because the MIDI led goes red but nothing happens. If I do this through the Controllers Menu everything works fine.

Has somebody tried this?

Thank you so much in advance.

Alex

[BrufordRules]

Please, could somebody test it with a MIDI controller or DAW?

I would really appreciate it. Thanks in advance.

[greenborder]

I am not sure if this is a bug or just a side-effect of the synth architecture, but I noticed that when I play duophonically, only the first oscillator responds to the Amp Env Release parameter. I guess it makes sense in a way as you when you release one note while still holding the other you'd want them both to converge into the first one. Is this just part of how this architecture works or something that can be 'fixed' in firmware?

Thanks again.

[_DemonDan_]

I am not sure if this is a bug or just a side-effect of the synth architecture, but I noticed that when I play duophonically, only the first oscillator responds to the Amp Env Release parameter. Is this just part of how this architecture works or something that can be 'fixed' in firmware?

Hi greenborder,

Careful attention was paid to the wording of this synth. It is called "paraphonic" (and not duophonic) because, although you have two separate Oscillators that each can be independently controlled, you still only have one Filter and one final Amplifier that are shared by everything coming from the Mixer.

But... there is a cool trick that I often use to gain independent control of the amplitude of each Oscillator. If you look at page 44 of the Owner's Manual, you'll see all of the possible Modulation Destinations, which include independent Levels for OSC1, 2, SUB, NOISE, and EXT IN.

By using Filter ENV (F.EG) as the Source and, let's say, OSC 2 LEV as the Destination, you could create the appearance of having separate volume envelopes for each Oscillator.

BUT... you have to remember that EVERYTHING still goes through the final AMP and its ADSR. So... Use the envelope hack on the Osc that's going to have the shorter Release Time (and/or the longer Attack Time) so that it happens within the envelope times of the "real" ADSR times.

[greenborder]

Careful attention was paid to the wording of this feature. It is called "paraphonic" (and not duophonic) because, although you have two separate Oscillators that each can be independently controlled, you still only have one Filter and one final Amplifier that are shared by everything coming from the Mixer.

Hi Demon, I indeed confused paraphonic with duophonic due to the "Duo" label on the button

Specifically as it is paraphonic I can imagine they could share the same Release phase of the Amp or Filter Env (as they do share the Attack), instead OSC 2 cuts off abruptly while OSC 1 releases as per the setting. I expect it to be a conscious design decision as when you are play legato while holding one note it makes sense you don't want to activate the Release phase yet. But when you release both notes simultaneously I can imagine they could both release as per the setting as they share the same amp, no?

Either way thanks for your input, the trick you mentioned sounds like it would be able to get the results I am after, I'll try it out soon.

[_DemonDan_]

...instead OSC 2 cuts off abruptly while OSC 1 releases as per the setting. I expect it to be a conscious design decision as when you are play legato while holding one note it makes sense you don't want to activate the Release phase yet. But when you release both notes simultaneously I can imagine they could both release as per the setting as they share the same amp, no?

I believe that what you're describing is: You're in DUO mode, and holding and hearing two notes. When you release one of the two keys, one of the two different notes you're hearing becomes the same pitch as the other (unison). It's not "cutting off"; it's still sounding. It's just that you're no longer hearing it as a distinctly separate pitch. It has absolutely nothing to do with amplitude or the amplitude's envelope.

Try this as an experiment: Set OSC 2 to a perfect 5th above OSC 1 using FREQUENCY. Now turn on DUO and set OSC 2's KB CNTRL to HI. Alternate between holding one key and two keys. You'll now hear that holding one key gives you a perfect 5th (proving that both Oscs are on) and that two keys gives you the perfect 5th *plus* whatever whatever delta you're adding with the higher of the two keys (again proving that both Oscs are on).

Observation: Since, in this test, you always hear two notes, regardless of holding one or two key, you know that OSC 2 is not going into a *Release* portion of amplitude.

If you're asking for OSC 2 to move more slowly to its original pitch when holding only one key... then what you're really asking for is GLIDE only on OSC 2 (which is easy to do on a Sub 37).

In other words: It has nothing to do with the Release Time of the AMP, as the amplitude of OSC 2 is not changing just because you're going from two keys to one key. It's only OSC 2's *pitch* that is rapidly changing when alternating between one key - two keys - one key.

[greenborder]

When you release one of the two keys, one of the two different notes you're hearing becomes the same pitch as the other (unison). It's not "cutting off"; it's still sounding.

Actually yes, you are completely right. I guess what I was looking for was a way to not have the OSC 2 merge to OSC 1 pitch when both keys are released so they both trail away at their own pitch, but I can imagine this isn't trivial to program.

Thanks for your insights Daniel!

[_DemonDan_]

I guess what I was looking for was a way to not have the OSC 2 merge to OSC 1 pitch when both keys are released so they both trail away at their own pitch...

Hi greenborder,

This exact request has previously been given to the engineers.
Although no promises can be made, at least know that it is already being looked at and considered.

One problem is: How does the Sub 37 know you're about to release both keys? If it waits a finite amount of time after releasing one key to see if you're going to release the second key (since nothing ever happens at *exactly* the same moment in time with computers) you'd then have that lag time whenever you let go of one key but planned on continuing to hold the second key.

[BrufordRules]

Hi all,

Amos sent me a preview of the new firmware and my problem with the NRPN commented above still persists. If somebody else has tested that his comments are welcomed.

But, another thing I noticed in the new firmware is that the OUT VOL: Master Volume Level has been removed from the list of destinations in both busses. Can somebody check if this option is present in the 1.0.3 firmware. It should be the 3rd at the end of the list.

Thank you all in advance.

Alex