Tape Delay vs. MF-104(z,sd)

[Indeed]

I have an Echoplex (EP-3) right now. Its awesome, but its kinda bulky, not so easy to travel with. I was wondering if anyone on this forum has experience with both an Echoplex AND one of the Moog Delay pedals, can shed some light on the differences, and trade offs if any...

I really like being able to adjust the delay time on the Echoplex and get the swirl & swoosh of the tape head, not to mention the crazy feedback build-ups. Does the Moog Delay do any of these things?? I already know about the CV, effects loop features and am totally stoked about em.

Basically, should I sell my Echoplex to get the MF-104(z,sd)????

Thanks!

[Duke Foog]

i played the fulltone tte in a store for a few minutes and i guess the main advantage it has over the moog (i just got the sd a couple weeks ago) is the tube tone and tape sound. very nice. the moog is really great also. i was actually wanting a cp251 but when the opportunity came to get an sd i really couldn't pass it up. the tone and sound quality of the moog is incredible. some people here have called it lofi, and it sorta is but i think a better way of describing it is organic. especially compared to digital.

anyway yeah it's got the cv advantage but also the short long switch has very very very cool octave effects. i find myself doing loops on the long setting with the feedback cranked then letting it oscilate for abit then switching it into the high setting and hear it transformed into really high metalic chirping

if you want to hear some sound clips pm me and i'll hook ya up.

[sir_dss]

I have both the Fulltone TTE and the MF-104SD.

Not the same sort of thing at all. The TTE is much more aggressive of a delay/echo while the MF-104SD is much more spacy. Plus you can to all sorts of stuff with the CV inputs like pitch shifting by putting a square wave LFO signal into the delay time input. Use the attenuator on the 251 to tame the range of pitch shifting.

I love them both.

[Dannymon]

I have an Echoplex (EP-3) right now. Its awesome, but its kinda bulky

Well, If I were you, I would keep the Echoplexfor my home/Studio use, and I would save some money to buy the 104Z. Like Sir_Dss said, they are two different machines. Also, you will be able to do a lot of cool stuff while playing live with the 104z and a couple of expression pedals.

Regards.

[Dannymon]

double post , oops

[Indeed]

yeah, the Echoplex IS special. I'm not gonna sell it, at this point at least. Being that I have this delay already, I may just divert the funds into a CP251...I got on a M104 kick the last few days, thinking about it lots... Who knows, if I make a ton of money soon (which is a real possibility) I will get a 104 of some sort, that CV stuff is rad...plus it sounds like the pedal has that unpredictable Moog element/character that is so magical. Its definitely staying on my list. Thanks all for your feedback.

[hieronymous]

This thread seems to have resolved itself, but I thought I would add some thoughts...

I've got one of the original MF-104 analog delays, as well as an old Roland RE-201 Space Echo that I acquired recently. As has already been noted about the echoplex and the Fulltone, the tape delays are quite different than the Moogerfoogers. I think the Space Echo is different from the Echoplex style units in that the tape head isn't moved manually, it's controlled by a knob, so it almost sounds like the speed ramps up (or down) to the new speed, kind of like a Leslie cabinet. I find the Moogerfooger to be mellower on regular delays, but the Space Echo to be much smoother and more musical for the long feedback dub kind of stuff. I can kind of demonstrate with two soundclips:

The first one is all MF-104 (except the reverb):
removed

(Shameless plug: other versions (without MF-104) can be heard here)

The next one actually has MF-104 on it, but the main delay is the Space Echo - at the end the feedback (or "intensity" as it's called on the RE-201) is turned all the way up. I really like the way it gradually comes in, instead of feeding back suddenly:
removed

(The original version of this can be heard here)

For me, one of the representative songs with that crazy Echoplex sound is Tommy Bolin's playing on Billy Cobham's Spectrum, which I just picked up on CD for the first time (had it on vinyl). Another would be some of the stuff Carlos Santana does on the live album Lotus, especially at the beginning...

[Indeed]

i really dig your samples man!

the 104 sounds really wacky!
I didn't suspect that at all...sooorta similar to a tape delay's wackyness, but the sound doesn't distort and come at you like the feedback does on the Tape (like an avalanche!!). It seems to stay more level, and liquid...adding more and more colors to itself, psychedelic indeed. The Tape sounds more subtle though...seems to fit in with everything else better, but the 104 sorta takes center stage...
but all of Bob's stuff seems to do that
word
thanks, it was a mind opener.

[hieronymous]

Cool, thanks! Glad you liked it! Yeah, I did the crazy stuff after I first got it. At first I was like, what have I done, I just dropped a huge amount of money that maybe I shouldn't have, but then started playing with it, had wicked fun doing nutty stuff at the beginning, and have since realized what a great pedal it is - these days I use it more for subtle echoes than anything else.

I've got some more stuff buried on my harddrive - I'll see what I can dig up!

[Brian G]

I don't have a tape delay for comparison, but I do have some examples of the 104SD alone and with the MuRF and Ring Mod in the feedback loop up on my ftp site. There are a few that have the CP251 controlling the Murf Ring Mod and Delay.

The 104 is a great tool .

ftp://jagunet.com/pub/users/bglock/MF104SD

you have to download the file in order to play it. For whatever reason MAC users sometimes have problems with the ftp site, sorry in advance.

Brian

[OLFAudio]

hieronymous

I was wondering what Space echo you have (201-301) I have a 201 and I don't get the super long feedback from it that you had in your sample.

[hieronymous]

hieronymous

I was wondering what Space echo you have (201-301) I have a 201 and I don't get the super long feedback from it that you had in your sample.

ezratrice, I've also got the 201. I think I was using setting "3". Also, the little switch by the "instrument" input jack was set to "echo" - I wonder if that has something to do with it? I'm pretty sure it's not a mod, because both the one that I bought recently and the one used on "8 Echo Dr." could do it...

[OLFAudio]

Interesting.
I've had my 201 for quite a few years and know the settings pretty well but definitely don't get the feedback you do. Maybe I need to look into calibrating the rate (or maybe intensity)

Thanks

[hieronymous]

Yeah, I feel like I've heard at another forum that the RE-201 doesn't do "sound on sound", which I assume means the feedback feeding on itself. I found one reference in a Fender Forum* where someone says they have a 301 and that it has "sound on sound" which implies that the 201 doesn't.

But then why have I played two 201s that can do it? That's what I don't get. Maybe the ones I've used have been modded?

So please experiment and let us know!

* Here's the entry:

...i'm getting my roland space echo this weekend!!!
...but i'll be broke in a haze of reverb drenched echo laden,jaguar through a big muff, wall of sound!!
plus it's the 301 chorus echo so it's got sound on sound,man who needs a band!!...

[OLFAudio]

I'll look into it and get back to you. I know the 301 had s-o-s. The 201 is not known for having it but check with the techs I know.