Sub Phatty - EXT ARP and KBD CONTROL

[IgorCristo]

I'm not sure if this is covered here somewhere and I couldn't search for this specific topic for a long time... sorry if this is already discussed in a dedicated topic.

I see that a lot of Sub Phatty's owners want to be able to use arpeggio with it. Well, so do I. I actually got to use the Sub Phatty with an amazing external device to provide arpeggio for it: iPad. Being more specific, the StepPolyArp app.

It's super simple to connect... Sub Phatty > USB cable > CCK > iPad. It's even simple to use... just open the app and play (using the Sub as a MIDI IN and OUT device). We just have one problem: since you're not able to use it without problems.

1. Once you connect everything and start to play, you can notice a few glitches when you "press the chord" to feed the arpeggio. This could be fixed if you turn LOCAL CONTROL OFF.
2. If you turn LOCAL CONTROL OFF, you can play the arpeggios without any problem, but you can't turn the knobs on the thing, wich is a very desirable thing.

My suggestion is actually really simple:
Give us the oportunity to turn KBD LOCAL CONTROL OFF and leave the KNOBS LOCAL CONTROL ON.

What do you guys think about it??
Amos, if you can give us some feedback on this, it would be great!

Cheers!!

[Bald Eagle]

It sounds like StepPolyArp is only outputting its own arp and ignoring other midi it receives when local control is off. Maybe an app like MidiBridge would be a solution. I only just installed MidiBridge and don't know all of its capabilities or limitations so I can't really suggest anything specific. It just seems like it would be worth looking into as a possible solution to your problem since it has routing, filters and more.

[IgorCristo]

@BaldEagle
The reason why it keeps having glitches is that the Sub is getting the external MIDI from StepPolyArp and triggering the internal notes at the same time... this isn't something related to StepPolyArp in any way. I'm actually capable of using the app to control Sub's parameters via MIDI and without glitches if I turn LOCAL CONTROL OFF. I really think that this is something really easy to implement on a firmware update in the future.

[dswo]

My suggestion is actually really simple:
Give us the oportunity to turn KBD LOCAL CONTROL OFF and leave the KNOBS LOCAL CONTROL ON.

I'm in exactly the same situation, and have exactly the same wish: local control off for keyboard, but on for knobs.

[Bald Eagle]

I'm all for a Local Control filter. And also, How about a MIDI Input Filter similar to the existing output filter.

[Petur]

EDIT: Double post. Sorry.

[Petur]

I have the same issue.

I am trying to use the SubPhatty with the arpeggiator on my Elektron Analog 4 by routing the MIDI note messages from the SubPhatty to the Analog 4 and then feeding back the arpeggiated notes from the Analog 4 through its CV outputs (the Analog 4 doesn't transmit note messages on the midi output). So doing it this way I loose all control of the SubPhattys knob parameters.

It seems that LOCAL CONTROL OFF is primarily intended for using the SubPhatty with DAW where you would record and loopback all MIDI data transmitted from the SubPhatty.

I really would like to be able to use the SubPhatty with an external arpeggiator. So a KBD LOCAL CONTROL OFF mode would be very useful. Please implement this in a future update!

[IgorCristo]

Nice to see that others here think like me on this.....

It would be an excelent addition to the Sub to have this kind of LOCAL CONTROL FILTER. It's not very fun not being able to use it's knobs when local control is off.

Cheers!

[willi]

Yes this would be a great feature addition.

[stiiiiiiive]

Guys, one question although I don't own any Sub.

The Little Phatty does have that menu that allows to set whether the USB (resp. DIN) MIDI IN should be merged into the USB and/or DIN MIDI OUT.
Doesn't the Sub has this? Because allowing no incoming MIDI messages to be merged would be a smart solution...

EDIT: maybe the Tx/Rx MIDI channels on the Sub should be differnet, and of course they should match the other MIDI instrumen's.

[Bald Eagle]

Guys, one question although I don't own any Sub.

The Little Phatty does have that menu that allows to set whether the USB (resp. DIN) MIDI IN should be merged into the USB and/or DIN MIDI OUT.
Doesn't the Sub has this? Because allowing no incoming MIDI messages to be merged would be a smart solution...

EDIT: maybe the Tx/Rx MIDI channels on the Sub should be differnet, and of course they should match the other MIDI instrumen's.

The Sub Phatty has it. From the Sub Phatty manual ...

MIDI MERGE USB
To set the MIDI Merge parameters for the USB port, engage Shift mode and press BANK 1, BANK 4, PATCH 3, and PATCH 4. Pressing the low C key will turn off MIDI merging. Pressing C# will cause data received by the USB port to pass through to the MIDI OUT jack only. Pressing D will cause data received by the USB port jack to pass through to the USB port only. Pressing D# will cause data received by the USB port jack to pass through to both the MIDI OUT jack and the USB port.

MIDI MERGE DIN
The Sub Phatty can merge MIDI data it receives with the MIDI data it transmits. You can specify the path of the merged data so that data received at either the MIDI IN jack or the USB port is passed through to the MIDI OUT jack or the USB port. To set the MIDI Merge parameters for the MIDI IN jack, engage Shift mode and press BANK 1, BANK 4, PATCH 1, and PATCH 2. Pressing the low C key will turn off MIDI merging. Pressing C# will cause data received by the MIDI IN jack to pass through to the MIDI OUT jack only. Pressing D will cause data received by the MIDI IN jack to pass through to the USB port only. Pressing D# will cause data received by the MIDI IN jack to pass through to both the MIDI OUT jack and the USB port.

[stiiiiiiive]

It's an Hallelujah then!!

Bald Eagle, have you been able to try the set-up described as poblematic here?

[Bald Eagle]

It's an Hallelujah then!!

Bald Eagle, have you been able to try the set-up described as poblematic here?

I can't try that exact setup since I don't have StepPolyArp and although having a function like local keyboard off would be a nice feature I don't see it as a big issue. As long as the app can echo back all midi events then there is not really a problem right?

Sometimes I have midi out from the Sub Phatty going into an M3 to drive Karma which is the same general concept. The midi generated by M3/Karma is going back to the Sub Phatty and I can use the knobs with local control off. You just need a way to echo everything back to the Sub Phatty. With an iPad app I think something like MidiBridge would help when using an app that isn't echoing all midi data.

[dswo]

I can't try that exact setup since I don't have StepPolyArp and although having a function like local keyboard off would be a nice feature I don't see it as a big issue. As long as the app can echo back all midi events then there is not really a problem right?

StepPolyArp -- a great app, by the way -- sends MIDI back to the Sub Phatty just fine. The problem is, the Sub Phatty is also getting MIDI notes from its own keyboard (which we are using to trigger the arpeggiator). Local Control off stops this -- the Sub Phatty will only play the notes from StepPolyArp -- but then you lose the knobs.

There are workarounds: you could trigger the arpeggiator from a second keyboard that's sending MIDI in to the app; or you could play the arpeggiator from the app's keyboard instead of the Sub Phatty's. But "local keys off and local knobs on" is just easier to play, because the keys and the knobs are right next to each other.

[Bald Eagle]

I can't try that exact setup since I don't have StepPolyArp and although having a function like local keyboard off would be a nice feature I don't see it as a big issue. As long as the app can echo back all midi events then there is not really a problem right?

StepPolyArp -- a great app, by the way -- sends MIDI back to the Sub Phatty just fine. The problem is, the Sub Phatty is also getting MIDI notes from its own keyboard (which we are using to trigger the arpeggiator). Local Control off stops this -- the Sub Phatty will only play the notes from StepPolyArp -- but then you lose the knobs.

There are workarounds: you could trigger the arpeggiator from a second keyboard that's sending MIDI in to the app; or you could play the arpeggiator from the app's keyboard instead of the Sub Phatty's. But "local keys off and local knobs on" is just easier to play, because the keys and the knobs are right next to each other.

The Sub Phatty transmits knob data when local control is off. If you loose the knobs then StepPolyArp is not transmitting the midi data from the knobs back to the Sub Phatty. That is the problem. As I said, you need an app that will transmit all midi data back to the Sub Phatty.

At some point I will likely get StepPolyArp or some other equivalent. I do hear a lot of good things about it.