LFO Midi sync

[Guitarmin]

Hi everybody,

I'm new to this forum as well as I'm new to the world of analogue synthesizers. I purchased a Sub Phatty last Saturday and I'm extremely happy with it even though I'm sure I haven't even discovered half of what it's capable of.

Anyway, there's one particular thing that bothers me: How does the LFO rate sync via midi? When I hook the SP up with my NI Maschine running in stand alone-mode, the LFO rate somewhat reacts to the song tempo but it's far from being synced to a particular beat. In Logic, however, the LFO couldn't care less about the song tempo unless it's automated afterwards. In that case, though, the aforementioned phenomenon occurs: It reacts, but not at all in a decent rhythmical way.

I've already activated the LFO Midi Sync via the shift mode (which, according to the manual, is the default option anyway) and the synth is connected to my computer (a MBP) via USB, which I also made sure both sends and receives midi data.

I'm pretty sure I'm being the source of the problem myself here, but I have absolutely no idea what I could have missed. So, any help would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks,
Armin

[Guitarmin]

Okay, I found out I explicitly have to tell Logic to send midi clock information for each individual project. That might just solve my problem.

[Guitarmin]

Since nobody is answering me I might as well just post again myself, and be it only for matters of documentation.

I'm just experiencing severe sync issues with Logic as I'm writing these lines. I first recorded an LFO rate automation and edited it afterwards. For some reason, now the LFO doesn't do anything at all. Also the knob doesn't react anymore (the same happened to the filter knob before). The Sub Phatty is connected to my computer via USB, but it's also receiving midi data via a midi cable since the USB connection seems a little dodgy to me. I really need help with this! Thanks a lot.

[Guitarmin]

One more thing: I just powered down the unit and switched it back on again which fixed the LFO - but now the filter is inactive again. Seriously, what's going on there?

[enossified]

Step 1: use either USB or DIN MIDI but never both...this can really confuse any MIDI device.

Step 2: does Logic include an event list? Look at exactly what MIDI msgs your automation is generating. If Logic has no event list, get MIDI Monitor.

Step 3: check p.57 of the manual, the values to tweak the LFO clock divider using CC#103 are stepped not continuous. Also, when are you sending these? Send them too often you may be simply confusing the Phatty's CPU.

[Amos]

I first recorded an LFO rate automation and edited it afterwards. For some reason, now the LFO doesn't do anything at all.

It's not you -- this is totally a bug. I have just reproduced it successfully; I'm fixing it now.

Thanks very much for reporting this!

-Amos

PS) it's no problem to use both DIN and USB for MIDI at the same time... unless we're talking about MIDI clock. You definitely only want to send clock to the unit from one source at a time. Otherwise, the timing of clock-synced functions gets pretty weird.

[Guitarmin]

Enossified, thanks for your input. I installed a midi monitor as you recommended and created a simple test set-up: The Phatty is connected to my computer via a USB cable directly (no hub) and I got rid of the DIN cable and the LFO is modulation the filter. I set up the Phatty as an external MIDI instrument in Logic and held down a single key, G2, for four bars. I then drew in an automation curve (rather a flat line) for CC #3 with a value of 61. According to the manual, this value represents a quarter note (as do numbers 62 through 67). According to the newly installed MIDI monitor, everything is perfectly fine since all those very numbers are being sent to the Phatty. What I'm hearing, though, is by no means a steady quarter note pulse. I couldn't even say what it is since it doesn't make much rhythmical sense. Plus, right after I hit play the LFO is sort of wobbly - but not in a dubstep kind of way, rather like a stuttering engine.

I now changed the automation value from 61 to 62 (still no actual automation, I just replaced the initial value) and what I get is quarter notes. The same applies to numbers 63 through 68! I'm typing this as I'm running the test. Could it be the values in the manual are incorrect (at least with Logic)? I double checked: Eighth note triplets do not start at 92 but at 93 and end at 98 correspondingly. I don't deem it necessary to check each and every value since I'm pretty sure about the respective results.

So, this is this, but: I just tried to actually automate the LFO speed and it's dodgy again: It starts at 62, playing perfect quarter notes. I then changed the value to 93 and I get eighth triplets, fine. Then the curve goes back to 62 and the timing is all over the place. The actual tempo still seems to be accurate, but it's totally lagging behind the beat or something - I don't know, weird things are happing. Looping those four bars, it does not get back in time when it passes the cycle the second time. The values displayed in the midi monitor are all perfectly right, though.

Amos, thanks for telling me this is not me but a bug. I wish it was me, though, since that would make it a lot easier to fix it. It's extremely frustrating, I just spent about an hour narrowing down a problem that should have been addressed way before the unit was released. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the Sub Phatty's build quality and it sounds amazing, hands down. But what's up with all these teething problems? Those aren't minor issues but bugs that make the Phatty impossible to work with. As long as you stay in the analogue domain, everything's fine and the Sub Phatty is state of the art. But taking it to the digital realm is a whole different story. Having seamless DAW integration was one of the key assets that made me buy the unit. Finding out this is not at all the case, I feel more than just a little let down. I've decided to return the unit and wait until it has matured a little. I don't want something that expensive to just live on my desk without being of any actual use. Which is a shame because, like I said before, I'm absolutely in love with its sound and hands-on approach.

[Amos]

sorry the sync did not meet your expectations. I've fixed at least one of the problems you reported already; the others should be fixed later this week (although it's a short week due to a US holiday, so we'll see). I do the best I can with limited resources.

Cheers,

Amos

[Guitarmin]

Amos, many thanks for your instant reply. I hope my rant didn't come out rude or offensive because it certainly wasn't meant that way. I understand you're doing a great job to satisfy your customers' demand and cope with their criticism. I'm just frustrated because I was so looking forward to being creative and productive with my new synthesizer. But the only thing I've been creative about so far was thinking about workarounds.

Actually, I still hope for someone to tell me I'm a complete moron who just missed a crucial detail. Unless this is the case, I'm eagerly waiting for your bug fix. Until then, the Sub Phatty is by far the coolest and noisiest peace of furniture in my appartment - apart from my fridge.

[Amos]

i feel your pain. Sync needs work; I'm on it. There are non-trivial aspects to clock sync of external gear, but it can be done better. Stay tuned

[Guitarmin]

Thanks a lot, Amos - I'm looking forward to it. I'm not at all clued up on these technical aspects but it sure sounds like a lot of tedious work. By the way: Did I seriously write "peace of furniture"?!? It was really late, I guess...

[Guitarmin]

Hi Amos, sorry I didn't have the time to test the new firmware before now, but it seems like you fixed it. Awesome work, thanks for staying with it!