Urgent - Sub Phatty Filter Knob stopped working

[comradecosmonaut]

Same problem here!!! Anytime MIDI is connected to the SP filter cutoff knob goes dead with filter stuck wide open. No MIDI, no problem. Using 1.2.7 firmware. Very frustrating.

[blomme]

I just installed the release firmware (1.0.3), but it didn't resolve anything.
Also when I load a preset, as long as I don't touch the cutoff knob the filter is fine (The envelopes are also working).
When I automate the cutoff frequency (DAW) it can perform slow and fast sweeps without jumps.

[synthcolony]

I'm not sure what firmware version my SP is. I am also having this issue with the cutoff knob not working randomly. I always have to reboot the SP to get it back. I got the SP very early on from Sweetwater and have not updated the firmware at all for fear of running into some of the same problems other users are writing about. I am using my SP with Live 9 via USB on a MacBook Pro 15" Retina.

[Guitarmin]

I'm having the exact same problem. Whenever I try to automate the cutoff frequency it gets stuck. Plus, there's something going on with the LFO sync I don't understand, as I've already described in another thread.

[Amos]

Guys -- I'm sorry this is happening, but I am glad there are several of you all reporting the same symptom, so maybe now we can start to narrow down why this is happening. I would have fixed this ages ago except it has literally never happened to me.

I will now ask some specific questions; my goal is to find out exactly what MIDI is being sent to the Sub Phatty that could be causing this problem. It stands to reason that if it only happens when MIDI is involved, and it never happens to me when I'm using MIDI, then I must not be sending "the same" MIDI messages. So, help me to figure out what I need to do to experience this problem.

Whenever I try to automate the cutoff frequency it gets stuck.

- what software are you using to automate the cutoff frequency?
- are you sending MIDI Time Code to the Sub Phatty?
- is Local Control turned on or off?
- try doing it again and getting the cutoff frequency "stuck" -- when it's stuck, can you get the LFO to modulate the cutoff? can you get the filter envelope to modulate the cutoff?
- when the cutoff is "stuck" does the cutoff frequency change when you change presets?

...a small touch to the main cutoff knob and the filter goes from closed to open or vice versa with some random jumps in between. [...] Also when I load a preset, as long as I don't touch the cutoff knob the filter is fine (The envelopes are also working).
When I automate the cutoff frequency (DAW) it can perform slow and fast sweeps without jumps.

- blomme, sounds like you are not having the same "every time I use MIDI the cutoff stops working" problem. I would guess either there is a hardware problem with the cutoff knob, or a calibration problem. If you will email me, I can walk you through re-calibrating the panel knobs to see if this helps.

Same problem here!!! Anytime MIDI is connected to the SP filter cutoff knob goes dead with filter stuck wide open. No MIDI, no problem.

- when you connect MIDI to the SP, what are you connecting exactly? what device, or what software, is sending MIDI to the SP in your setup?
- are you sending MIDI clock, MIDI Time Code? (not sure if this is even a factor but perhaps it could be)
-is MIDI connected "both ways" (in and out) between the Sub Phatty and whatever else? Is Local Control off or on?

I wish I knew the right questions to ask. I have tested with various DAWs, Mac and Windows, and haven't had any problems with the filter cutoff. I hope that this additional feedback will be helpful...

[CleverConQueso]

Amos,
Have you tried checking with a hardware sequencer connected via traditional MIDI DIN? I've never used the USB for MIDI myself and the problem is pretty reliable for me.
-CCQ-

[bandmasta]

Hey Moog friends! (I am a Korean in the US)

This is my first post here because I just recieved my first moog synth whch was SP.

Today, I experienced the same situation. SP's filter cutoff worked fine until I connected it to

my Elektron Octatrack (OT). OT can control other gear's parameters by MIDI mapping function.

I assigned one of knobs of OT to control SP's filter cutoff which was MIDI #19. When I turned the OT'S knob,

SP did not respond my MIDI control. Then, I turned the knob of SP directly, but it just did not work anymore.

I did factory reset, but no luck until I changed one of under the hood function which was Filter Envelope

Reset. I switched it to ON. And, my MIDI mapped filter cutoff began to work fine.

I don't know whether there is relation between two or not, but it is working fine now.

Edit: My SP's filter cutoff is not working again!!!

[CleverConQueso]

In the interest of trying a different sequencer (and because it's awesome) I connected a Tenori-On while the Sub was powered up and it ran OK. I didn't leave it on long enough to find out if that would change. I power cycled the Sub with the T-O running and it had the problem right away. My Electribe filters out everything but note data on the MIDI outs. The T-O has no such feature. Behavior on both is the same, though.
I tried turning some hidden features as the post above me describes but it didn't change anything for me.

[CleverConQueso]

Just tested with an MC909 as well. I can say conclusively that if I have a MIDI DIN connected and powered on at the input of the Phatty when I turn the Phatty on, I will have the filter issue right away. Not being able to use my sequencer is tying half my band behind my back. Is anyone else using a hardware sequencer with theirs? Is the Sub reliable for you? Does anyone have experience with the Slim? Do you think I'd be better off there?
Thanks,
-CCQ-

[Stuka]

FWIW -

As Amos mentioned, did you guys check and see what kind of MIDI time signal your sequencer is sending?

I don't have a Sub Phatty, but I do have a Slim Phatty ("SP" in the owners manual...) that was having all kinds of weird issues when hooked up to sequencers. I had remembered seeing a comment from Amos that MIDI Time Code (MTC) can cause issues with some of the Moog gear. Once I changed all my gear to send MIDI clock ONLY, and not MTC (and did a factory reset on my SP so I could start with a clean slate), all my issues went away.

Might be worth trying that with the Sub and see if that has any effect...

[Guitarmin]

Amos, I'm using Logic 9 and I'm not sending MTC to the Sub Phatty, just clock information. Local Control is turned on. However, I just discovered a download link to the latest firmware which I only just uploaded. Apparently it fixed the cutoff issue as I've been unable to reproduce it since. Don't know if that's only a coincidence, though.

[OgamiZ]

I've had this problem with the cutoff a couple of times but only when using Studio One, switching on & off seems to sort it. All seems to work fine with Ableton Live, but I'm only using the usb direct to my mac. I'll maybe see if I can find a midi cable & connect the Oxygen 61 to see how that affects the cutoff knob.

[Amos]

a couple of updates!

1) I have finally fixed the MTC (MIDI Time Code) vulnerability. This fix will be in the next Sub Phatty update and, later, the next Little & Slim Phatty update as well. So, there's that sorted.

2) I've also (hooray!) finally reproduced the filter cutoff problem (!!). In my case it appears to be, deep down, an invalid Aftertouch value. I still need to work out how this is happening so I can be certain it's fixed, but while I'm working on that, here's something you can try, perhaps: If this happens to you again, try sending actual MIDI aftertouch to the Sub Phatty and see if this snaps it out of the problem condition. In theory, an aftertouch value of zero (or any low value) should make the filter work normally again. What happens is that the sound engine sums all the inputs to the filter cutoff, which includes the knob, the filter envelope, key tracking, LFO, and aftertouch... if aftertouch is some crazy high value, then this swamps all the real inputs and leaves the final filter cutoff value pinned at maximum.

I'll make another build in a moment, with a possible fix implemented...
>> http://www.moogconnect.net/downloads/su ... _1_2_8.syx

-Amos

[CleverConQueso]

Amos! I think you've got it. I'll keep you posted. Thanks for staying on it.
-CCQ-

[bandmasta]

How do I download the firmware?