Sub Phatty beta firmware - final bug roundup

[Amos]

Today was a good day in firmware land, I think. Here's v1.2.4.

http://www.moogconnect.net/downloads/su ... _1_2_4.syx

changes in this version:

-Legato Glide works the same in Local Off as it does in Local On.

-Octave Up/Down switches directly affect outgoing MIDI from the keyboard (should just work now, no funny business).

-Local Control is now persistent (stays how you set it when you power down).

-Pressure Scale can now be edited from the Editor - it's a global parameter. Yes I know it would be cooler if it was saved per-preset, and assignable to other destinations. Maybe later.

Note, the KB octave up/down switches have no effect on incoming MIDI, only on the Sub Phatty keyboard.
I don't remember if it was ever some other way, but that's definitely how it works now. I think this is the most logical way to do it.

[dswo]

Thank you, Amos.

[till]

...
-Pressure Scale can now be edited from the Editor
...

Code: Select all

if (Pressur = Aftertouch) {
    echo("how to route it to sources?");
}

Thanks for the update!

[jags]

Got my Moog Sub about a week ago. With the original firmware the non consistent settings when you engaged the activate panel were bothering me quite a bit. Last night downloaded the Elektron sysex tool and the 1.2.4 firmware update. Installation went smoothly without a hitch. My Moog Sub behaves a lot better now!

Thanks Amos!!

[nofuturenocore]

Hello Amos,


While using Sub Phatty with Ableton Live Suite 9 I got some problem with the LFO.

Sometimes it just stop works and then it works again maybe it's a problem coming from my way of using it because I am a big newbie.
I don't understand what cause this problem because of my lack of analogue and firmware knowledge.


A part this I didn't understand something about the local mode, Is this only to control some parameters of other instruments by using the Sub Phatty's Knobs to crontrol them or there is an other usefulness about this mode ?
I understand the difference between Panel Mode and Preset Mode but that's all about the mode. I try to read again the user's manual but I didn't find anything about this. Where can I find more information about all theses things that are not in the User's manual.


When I'm using the Sub Phatty with Ableton I use external Instrument with midi coming from the Sub Phatty (For automation in midi clips) and the External instrument sending midi from Ableton to the Sub Phatty so I can play on the piano to make the sound design with Ableton sending midi ( Arpeggio etc ) and then play my Midi sequence to be sure that it sound correctly with the Sound Design I made before, then I make the automation.

Should I use one of this mode that I don't understand with Ableton or this don't matter ?
Is there things that are dangerous for the Sub Phatty while using it with DAW that I must care ? ( Don't want to bow it...)


I was using the 1.2.2 firmware when I had this recurrent LFO problem, I'll make the 1.2.4 now and let you know If these solve the LFO problem.

EDIT: When I make a firmware update; Must I use a direct USB Port or can I use like usually my USB HUB. ( My DJTT MidiFighter firmware update doesn't work when I'm using the HUB so maybe it's the same with the Sub Phatty.)

Thanks, sorry for the English, I did my best.

NoFuture.

[ul303]

Hi,

FYI I have switched back to din midi as I have experienced problems (glitches) using the usb midi. The glitches in sound happened mostly when using the mod wheel. I am still in V1.2.3. Not sure if it is related to the SP as it is my only device that supports midi over usb.

[Amos]

...While using Sub Phatty with Ableton Live Suite 9 I got some problem with the LFO.
Sometimes it just stop works and then it works again...
A part this I didn't understand something about the local mode...is an other usefulness about this mode ?
...Where can I find more information about all theses things that are not in the User's manual.

Hi NoFuture... you did OK with the English. better than I could do in any other language without some help.

so -- you should try setting Local Control to Off. For the way in which you are using the Sub Phatty, it could help.
The best place to learn information that isn't in the manual is probably by searching my forum posts.
For example, I explained the purpose of Local Control in this very thread:

[Local Off is] a way to resolve the conflict that would otherwise occur when the Midi Track is Armed and you're turning a panel knob... you want the knob to send MIDI so you can record the automation... you want the track to send MIDI to the synth because that's it's entire reason for being... given that both those things are happening, you DON'T want the knob to affect the sound engine directly, because that would duplicate what the MIDI is already doing.

So, in the situation where you have an External Instrument track, and "MIDI From" is set to Sub Phatty (or All Ins), and "MIDI To" is set to Sub Phatty, and Monitor is set to In or Auto... then you should probably set Local Control to Off. Otherwise, a lot of the time you will be sending duplicate messages to the Sub Phatty any time you turn a knob or play keys. This can cause glitchy sounds, and possibly other strange behaviors.

EDIT: about the firmware update -- I would never do a firmware update through a USB hub; the best practice is to connect the computer directly to the device for firmware update. Use a good USB cable, too. It's best to minimize any possible chance of failure, and a hub is a potential point of failure. So, no need to use it.

[Amos]

I have switched back to din midi as I have experienced problems (glitches) using the usb midi. The glitches in sound happened mostly when using the mod wheel. I am still in V1.2.3. Not sure if it is related to the SP as it is my only device that supports midi over usb.

Hi ul303, can you tell me some more about your setup? When you were using the mod wheel and hearing glitches in the sound, were you also using Ableton Live (or another DAW) with MIDI going from the synth to the DAW and from the DAW to the synth at the same time?

[ul303]

Hi Amos,

Sub Phatty connected via both din and usb midi. Local Off.
In live 9 I have an external instrument track assigned to the SP.
Using the piano roll and the mouse I create a basic 1 bar sequence (so that it does not depend from which device I am playing the sequence from)
In live if I choose the midi output of the external instrument being the din output: I have no issue playing back while moving the mod wheel or any knob.
If I switch to usb I encounter the problem even when I turn the cutoff mode for instance.
In live I have set the sames midi options for din & usb ports.

Hope that helps.

[Amos]

UPDATE: I tried something in v1.2.4 with Relative Mode... which turned out to be a step in the wrong direction.
In v1.2.4, the panel knobs go crazy if they are in Relative mode and you have a MIDI loop with Local Control turned on (similar to how they behaved in older firmware versions).

in v1.2.3, Relative Mode works OK, even when you are doing MIDI echo with Local Control turned on. Doing this is technically "wrong" and should be avoided, but as this thread has indicated, everyone seems to do it anyway... so, it's good if the Sub Phatty can be more tolerant of this wrong behavior.

I've fixed this... again... and it seems to work pretty well now. I'll post another firmware build soon,
Right now, I'm still trying to reproduce some of the more random seeming problems people are reporting... I'd like to fix everything this time around, if possible.

cheers,

Amos

[Amos]

Hi Amos,

Sub Phatty connected via both din and usb midi. Local Off.
In live 9 I have an external instrument track assigned to the SP.
Using the piano roll and the mouse I create a basic 1 bar sequence (so that it does not depend from which device I am playing the sequence from)
In live if I choose the midi output of the external instrument being the din output: I have no issue playing back while moving the mod wheel or any knob.
If I switch to usb I encounter the problem even when I turn the cutoff mode for instance.
In live I have set the sames midi options for din & usb ports.

Hope that helps.

Keep in mind that unless you make some changes, the Phatty is by default always sending MIDI out both the USB and DIN MIDI outputs, and it's listening to both the USB and DIN MIDI inputs at the same time. I would never connect both types of MIDI at the same time unless I had a very specific reason for doing so (like, one piece of software was using DIN and a different software using USB, never both DIN and USB to the same software). This could easily cause weird stuff to happen. For example, if Live is sending MIDI clock to both the DIN and USB, then the Sub Phatty is getting twice as many MIDI clock messages as it's supposed to get... and if your MIDI track input is set to "all ins" then it will get duplicates of every message coming out of the Sub Phatty.

So, try using only USB and not DIN and see if USB still seems odd... in general, you only need one MIDI I/O device per instrument connected to Live, not two complete sets of I/O both connecting the same instrument to Live.

[ul303]

No I have the same issue with only USB midi connected.
I connected Din midi to to check that the issue was coming with usb and not din during the same session.
Btw it could be due to an issue with my PC?

[ul303]

Just noticed another issue.
SP is connected via din midi only. local off. v1.2.4
If I play the sequence assigned to the SP trakc and use the SP keyboard to play another track in live with a VSTI (record button set to this vsti track) it causes the sequence to hold the notes of the sequence (like playing legato) instead of playing the sequence normaly!
This does not happen if I play the vsti track with my midi keyboard (whatever the midi input selected for this vsti track).

[ul303]

v1.2.4
Select a preset patch
Change octave
Save it
Octave value is back to the previous one

[misterpete]

Hi AMOS - no bug reports from me recently ~ Firmware process can be finicky but this one loaded alright as well
I am not seeing the problems reported here possibly since I don't use LOCAL off or LIVE
hope to see an Editor update soon- works quite nicely now under 10.8.3 but still severely limited under 10.6.8