'Keyboard Amps'

[ZYKLIFF]

Does anyone here want to discuss the amplifier they prefer to run their Moog through? In the only band I have been with that had keys, the keyboard player always ran through the PA or the house... Counterproductive to a 'Signature Sound' imo...

So the Q is, of the amps to use -- Guitar amps, Bass amps, Class A, AB, 6L6GC/ECC803S/5751 or EL84/12AX7/5751... Not really crazy about solid state for anything -- who prefers which, and why?

[namahshaman]

I use a QSC PA . . . and I have no trouble getting a "signature sound." I've run my Voyager and Phatty through several guitar and bass amps, and certain patches sound great, but across the board you tend to loose quite bit of dynamic range, IMO. An amp can really limit your tone.

One setup I tried for a while (which gave me a combination of options) was running an AUX out of my mixer to my guitar amp, then I could send as much (or as little) of the signal as I wanted to the amp depending on the patch.

[filtered]

An early 70s Fender Twin for me! I love the character it brings out of the Voyager! I dial down the treble a little bit and boost the mids- The tubes compress the sound au natural, and takes a little of the cream out of the sound, and adds a more vintage Moogish bite- I never go direct- I hate relying on a monitor mix to hear what I'm doing, and you never know what it sounds like out front when you relinquish total control to the soundguy- Unless the soundguy is YOURS that is, but who can afford that these days?

[Kenneth]

This is the thing about "solid state" vs. "tube" amplifiers. I think it's important to use a tube amplifier when playing electric guitar, because so much of your tone depends on the amplifier you use. A Moog synthesizer, on the other hand, has all that "signature" classic Moog sound already inside it, waiting to storm out on a murderous rampage. If you run that pure Moog badassery through a tube guitar amp, you're coloring the tone, and you're not going to hear a pure Moog sound. I used to run my Voyager through a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, and while it sounded interesting, it didn't have the punch or growl that I associated with Moog. I knew it was the amp, so I sold it and bought a professional solid state keyboard amp, which allows the Moog sound to pass through unadulterated. This being because the tone of the amp is almost 100% transparent: it doesn't color the tone one bit. When I play my Moog through it, I don't hear the amp. I only hear Moog. I'm not trying t say I am right and filtered is wrong, this is just the way I like it.

I've got a Motion Sound KP200S. Stereo input, and if you've got a Voyager that means being able to get those gnarly filter variations with the spacing knob. Also, the amp has a control called "spread" which I think is something like "surround sound", sounds totally awesome. Highly recommended.

When performing live, I always bring my own 12 channel mixer, so I can EQ and pan everything myself, ensuring that my "sound" is not up to the inexperienced hands of the sound guy (not many sound guys are dealing with Moogs these days).

[GovernorSilver]

Be careful about running your Moog synth through guitar amps, especially if you're using a bass patch. One time-tested way to blow up guitar amp speakers in a hurry is to play a bass through it, especially long sustained bass tones at high volume - Minimoogs, Phatty's, Taurii etc. are especially notorious for loud, sustained, guitar-amp bustin' bass.

Better off using full-range speakers for your Moog. If you feel like you MUST have tube coloration, you're better off with a bass amp or certain brands of keyboard amp (Motion Sound, Traynor, etc.). I'm satisfied with my Electro Voice ZXA-1 powered speaker.

[Ledbetter]

+1 on the caution about bass notes. I use a Roland Jazz Chorus 120 or two Peavey Kb100's, in stereo.

[Vince Ascoli]

I'd like to second the QSC PA option, even a single powered speaker is going to run rings around a typical amp. Super quality, wide frequency response and very robust. Unless you really want the signature sound of a particular amp, in which case I'd try before you buy, for sure. I used to gig with a Marshall JCM800 head & 4x12 cabinet for keys, because I wanted 'that' sound, a la Emerson & Lord with their Hiwatt heads You'll know what you like, when you hear it...

[stiiiiiiive]

Has anybody tried the AER or SR Technology hi-fi amps? Would like to get some feedback from you guys.

[ZYKLIFF]

Lots of good points here... Some options to consider... One amp I am shooting to try for is the Fender Bassman 100. http://www.vintageandrare.com/uploads/p ... iginal.jpg

With its multiple inputs and high headroom 6L6 output section, appears to be a worthy candidate for a two board kinda player. It's funny - vintage gear - weren't the Bassman head and 4x12 cab together worth a total of $600 in their day? And now I do believe that the heads alone fetch that much (edit: USED!). More, especially in original condition. The only Bassman I've seen/heard in person was a Bassman 50 modded for "the grind"... A guitarist was using it. Sounded cool, but at this point it seems a shame to molest such a sweet amp.

[thealien666]

I've played my Voyager Old School (back when I had it) through a pair of Mackie SRM-450, and the result was impressive, to say the least ! Covered the whole range of the instrument.

[GovernorSilver]

The Bassman head option might be ok, but as has been stated, beware of using guitar speakers with Moog synths. You should get a bass cabinet to go with that Bassman head, NOT a guitar cab. If you want a cheaper all-tube bass head, check out Traynor.

Keep in mind when you play Moog bass parts, the Moog is putting out high frequencies and low frequencies at the same time. A guitar speaker would produce a "muffled" sound (until it blows up, as previously warned!) because it is not designed to output the highs like a modern bass cabinet or other full-range cabinet.

A Roland JC-120 is one of the rare exceptions - a guitar amp that will seemingly survive anything you throw into it, including bass, but it's solid state and you said you are trying to avoid solid state, even though we have been trying to convince you that you cannot treat a Moog or any synth exactly like an electric guitar.

[MC]

I gig with an old Moog Synamp rigged as a biamp system. Speakers are Bose 802s for top and a Peavey 2x15 for bottom. Great sounding system but that Synamp is one heavy unit.

[unfiltered37]

I think there is a common misconception about tube vs solid state. Both can pass audio clean, and I have heard tube gear that is extremely transparent even when pushed kinda hard (but before clipping). And I have heard lots of solid state stuff, like my Neve style recording gear, that can be quite colored when pushed hard. Most modern designs that are not clones or throwbacks, (tube or solid state) are pretty much transparent, even some lower end stuff. The real issue is whether when pushed hard, how good is that sound going to be?

Most modern gear is not going to sound very good, but can be pushed very hard before distorting, and is very brittle, meaning it breaks up badly and is not pleasing. Tube gear, and higher quality class A discrete solid designs tend to saturate nicely, and that is why we tend to designate them as "colored", because people drive amps into distortion, that is common practice.

"Transparent" solid state gear (especially IC based) can also be driven into distortion, but it sounds terrible most of time so its not often done, so its not perceived as "colored".

Gear that colors the signal significantly at nominal levels is actually quite rare, aside from vintage tube mics, and old tube gear with archaic impedance issues. The Neve 1073 mic pre is supposedly one of the most colored preamps, but is actually strikingly clean when used at normal levels.

I too think guitar amps of any sort are the wrong choice for Moogs, but almost anything else, such as mic pres, line amps, bass amps, PA's are all acceptable to me. The speaker to me is probably the most important element of an analog synth amp setup. I use a 15" bass cab with tweeter for my mini. I get all the color I need from the mini itself and effects.

[ZYKLIFF]

I am enjoying reading all of this. I definitely agree the speaker choice is equally important as the means of amplification.

The shootout I am conjuring up will be bas(s)ed around a vintage Bassman 4x12 cab with new old stock Eminence speakers(bass-voiced) wired in parallel for a 4 ohm load. I am leaning towards a vintage (would match!) Fender Bassman 100... but I am willing to try solid state bass heads (certainly would be cheaper.), and other tube heads, such as the Ampeg SVT Classic, Traynors too... It will be interesting as soon as I get ears on these. As of right now, the PA is working, but I am certain it could sound better. I should be shopping by the end of the week.

[Voltor07]

https://vimeo.com/61060150 My latest video. Previously, I used a Phonic MK 50 for amplification. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwVuy7dO ... DJXzpKwAOg