Moog Rogue Pitch Wheel - No Spring?

[Flip]

I've noticed the Rogue's have no spring loaded in their pitch wheel. Its just loose like how the mod wheel is. I'm considering buying a Rogue but I've never used a pitch wheel with no spring.

Usually the spring makes it go back to the exact spot in the center, so that it returns to the same exact pitch every time. Without the spring though, it seems as if the whole keyboard could be a little sharp/flat if not returned to the exact spot in the center everytime. That could be a problem when playing in conjunction with other instruments that are all tuned to each other.

I was just wondering how that works as far as returning it to the normal pitch without the spring, and how users deal with it?

[thealien666]

Even though the pitch bend wheel hasn't got a spring back action on The Rogue, there is what is called a "dead band", or "dead zone", where a small movement at the center notch position will not affect the pitch in either direction until the wheel is moved further up or down.

The Moog Prodigy is the same, as well as The Source and the Memorymoog, if I'm not mistaken.

The only exception to this is the Minimoog D which has no spring, but no "dead band" either and makes the pitch bend wheel ultra sensitive. I use it to create manual vibratos, much like a guitar string.

[Kevin Lightner]

It basically clicks into place in the center, both physically and electrically.
No problem having it return to center.
You just have to move it back yourself instead of having it snap back by itself.

[thealien666]

A few other synths from that same era didn't have a spring-back action on their pitch bend wheel either.

I guess manufacturers might have received enough complaints from keyboard players who were inadvertently touching it during live performances, or simply forget that the wheel was left up, or down, making the whole keyboard transposed unintentionally, that they decided to add a spring back to center action on later models ? Effectively making the pitch bend even more similar to bending a guitar string...

Personally, I don't like spring back. But that's just me...

Just to be clear: spring or not, they ALL have a center notch (like Kevin said, it clicks at center).

[Flip]

ah, thanks guys. The center notch makes sense. As long as there's some marker so you know where center is, no spring is not a problem. I think I may actually like it better with no spring, as it should be easier to do the up/down bend thing on bass slides. Less thumb fatigue too.

I didn't know that all the vintage moogs had no spring either. Thanks for the info.

[CZ Rider]

I didn't know that all the vintage moogs had no spring either. Thanks for the info.

Not all vintage Moogs. The 1972 Sonic-Six had a spring loaded wheel that was mounted verticaly. The Moog Sonic-Six brochure called it "Moog Floating Touch", for pitch bend on the left hand controller section. Always thought Roland copied the Sonic-Six by simply puting a handle on the wheel of their pitch bender assembly.

Edit: Moog did make a retro-fit kit in the 80's, if you wanted to add a spring to your existing wheel. Not sure what models it fit, but I thought it was offered as an upgrade to the Memorymoog.

[thealien666]

Interesting info CZ Rider, I didn't know that.

There are also the Micromoog and Multimoog, with their electronic-auto-return-to-center Ribbon Controller instead of a conventional plastic wheel. Never had the chance to try one, unfortunately...

[CZ Rider]

Moog even made a retro-fit for the Minimoog with the Micromoog pitch ribbon. Was a complete lefthand section. Moog claimed you could do those hammer-on techniques with their ribbon, not possible with the wheel. Always wanted to try one of those, just for fun.

[thealien666]

I found this link from Kevin in another thread on this forum from 2009:


http://www.minimoog.net/moogfsbwheelspring.jpg

[Kevin Lightner]

Moog even made a retro-fit for the Minimoog with the Micromoog pitch ribbon. Was a complete lefthand section. Moog claimed you could do those hammer-on techniques with their ribbon, not possible with the wheel. Always wanted to try one of those, just for fun.

I used to have a bunch of those and while they're interesting and can do things the wheels can't, I still prefer the wheels.
The reason is finger position.

To put ample pressure on the ribbon, one needs strong fingers.
The strongest fingers are usually the index and thumb.
But it's not so easy to push down on the ribbon with those fingers while still working the mod wheel.
It's not as hard as playing a violin probably, but still a whole other technique to master.

[till]

I bought the Moog Liberation (same as Micromoog?) ribbon and added it on my Minimoog with rebuilt cabinet from beech wood in 1985:

(click for full size)

The main reason was a worn out pitchwheel of this then real bargain priced Minimoog with a dark brown cabinet.
I swap the modwheel with the pitchbend, so that I put my left hand on the edge of the housing. The middle finger is then laying automatically on the center of the ribbon. The thumb is on the mod wheel.

The two knobs are positioned in the holes of the special sized glide and decay footswitch (what an strange position to plug cables in there). One is for adjusting the zero, the other for the max bending range.

And yes, the Moog ribbon need more pressure then the Yamaha CS80 ribbon. I never liked the pitchwheels anyway. So I am not using them that much on all my other synths. And the Oberheim levers are somewhat not easy to be controlled fine enough by me.

[ollie633]

Is it possible to add a spring to the Pitch wheel's inside the Rogue?

[Kevin Lightner]

Is it possible to add a spring to the Pitch wheel's inside the Rogue?

Yes, but you'd need two springs exactly the same and also exact mounting positions for both sides of both springs.
A bit of work.

[thealien666]

Couldn't something like this be used maybe ?

[Kevin Lightner]

If one added a couple more posts on the side of the wheel, a Roland-type spring might work.
But I don't know if there's enough room on the pot's bushing to fit one.
Also several Rolands used special pots with either an opposite center terminal or a special taper with a dead zone.
Not sure how well such a spring might work in a Rogue or with its pitch pot.
Might be easier to install a Roland pitch bender.