Why I Prefer The Sub Phatty To The Sub 37

Hello :slight_smile:

Today I had the great priveledge of an extended try out of the Sub Phatty and Sub 37 synthesizers thanks to the helpful guys at Dawsons in Manchester, so I thought I’d write up a quick comparison. Allow me to start by saying that both synths are absolutely first class, and this post is not intended as a detraction of either. It’s mostly an explanation of why I prefer the Sub Phatty, to sound out some thoughts and potentially help those who may also be deliberating between the two.

I’ll get the price out of the way right now. Both synths use the same sound engine but the Sub 37 is a good £540 more expensive than the Sub Phatty, and so invites the question of whether it’s worth paying the extra.

The first thing that stands out about the Sub 37 is its abundance of buttons and knobs; pretty much everything you need is right there on the front panel, which is fantastic but also invites a certain amount of initial confusion. It looks a little bit complicated at first glance, even to an advanced synth user, but it doesn’t take too long to get used to and its endless possibilities are strikingly apparent after a quick twiddle with each section. Having said that, the Sub Phatty also has most of the same possibilities (such as Hold in the EGs, KB reset, multiple Glide modes, multiple Filter poles, etc), albeit via a series of button pushes that need a certain amount of decoding. Since the front panel of the Sub Phatty is much less complex and all of the essential stuff has its own button or knob, it’s a fairly even trade off. In the end, for me the Sub Phatty comes out as a pretty good balance between front panel and internal control, somewhere between the irritatingly sparse Little Phatty and the (dare I say) unnecessarily cluttered Sub 37.

With twin digital modulators and a multitude of sources and destinations, the Sub 37 is full of new possibilities in modulation, but these aren’t without their problems. I found that some of the mod destinations, for instance the filter poles, produce less than desirable digital artifacts. Indeed, if you’re after that glitchy digital sound, this is actually quite a good thing. However, if what you’re after is a more classic moog sound, you’ll probably find yourself not bothering with a lot of the modulation settings.

The presence of an onboard arpeggiator is great fun to play with, but seems like a bit of a gimmick, especially amongst all of the other features of the Sub 37. I would guess that most synth and music enthusiasts have some sort of MIDI-capable DAW which can be linked to a hardware synth for arpeggiation and sequencing, thus rendering the onboard arpeggiator an unnecessary addition to the Sub 37’s clutter. This is a bit of a moot point though because if we’re looking at these synths purely in their own right, the Sub 37 has an onboard arpeggiator, the Sub Phatty doesn’t. For me, this absolutely isn’t a problem, but for other synth players, it might be.

The Sub 37’s paraphonic mode is one of its most interesting and compelling features, even within the 20 minutes I was playing with the synth I thought of various ways that I could use it, but it wasn’t necessarily a dealbreaker. OK, so it can play twice the number of simultaneous notes than the Sub Phatty can play, but the same effect can be achieved by recording two (or more!) layers in a DAW project, and for live purposes…well, I guess it depends on the type of music you play and the setup you have. The ability to play two notes simultaneously on this kind of synthesizer might come as a revelation to some (and it is, to be fair), but generally if I need polyphony I use a fully polyphonic synth. If moog music ever create a synth with 3 or 4 (or more!) note polyphony, this just might clinch it. But in the end two notes is just, well, a bit…meh!

All of this is not to mention the fact that it doesn’t say ‘moog’ anywhere on the front panel of the Sub 37. It does have the late and great Bob Moog’s signature, which is nice, and there was just about enough space on the front panel for the designers to include the circular note logo. But this isn’t really the same as occasionally glancing across from your soundcrafting to see the word ‘moog’ in classic, rounded, friendly letters. This may not even be a consideration to some, but I like to be able to see what I’m playing with. What it lacks in frivolous gimmickry, the Sub Phatty more than makes up for in its confident air of authenticity.

Don’t get me wrong here guys, the Sub 37 is absolutely awesome, and when it was put in front of me it was like arriving on some sort of almighty mothership! However, when I was presented with the Sub Phatty…it was that little bit more like an old friend who knew exactly what I wanted.

That’s all, thanks for reading this, I hope it’s helpful.

Comments welcome.

Hi bud, just missed you in Dawsons, I went yesterday to scoop me up a sub 37! I didn’t think to compare the 2 to be honest, I did demo the sub 37 for like 2 minutes but I could see my impatient girlfriend huffing and puffing. As its my first analogue synth, not even tried one out before either, I didn’t know what to listen for so I just took a leap of faith and bought it!

So, although I didn’t demo the sub phatty (originally what I planned to get) the selling points for me for the 37 were being able to switch between filter modes really easily and stuff like that. And also the 2 note thing I really liked. If my budget was tighter though I would of gone with the sub phatty

Welcome to the forum guys :slight_smile:

Will3music, thanks for sharing your impressions. I totally get the “old friend” point. I had the same feeling when trying the SubPhatty my guitarist had just bought while I had ben using a Little Phatty for 2+ years. I could not get (as easily) to the meaty results I were used to with my good ol’ LP.

That being said, I have a couple of remarks. I like limitations. I like them because they are developing creativity in a good way.
Hence I’m not with you on the sequencer/arp and duophony points.

About sequencing, not everyone use some kind of computer based sequencing system. I for instance don’t, because computers kill my mojo. I do prefer a well though, integrated, on-board sequencer to anything else… even if that implies simpler sequences. Provided the thing is usable live.

The Sub37 duophony is -in the end of the day- what had me to (almost) have it replacing my LP (Long story short: I do prefer the sound of the LP, in particular the overlaod). Not even speaking of the paraphony vs. polyhpony point (but that’s totally a limitation I’d find stimulating :slight_smile:), I feel there is much more distance to walk between one-note capability and two-notes capability than there is between two-notes capability and n-notes capability.
To me, adding a second note is like adding color to a nice gray picture. It’s getting into the harmony realm. The 3rd and subsequent notes will add shades, but I tend to think that other instruments/tracks can do that in many contexts. While that second note makes a huge difference. Plus I find stimulating to think in terms of “what are the two most important notes to translte that harmony”, giving scarse ambiance clues to the listener rather than provinding the whole 3 or 4-tones chord right away.

Well, you’ve understood that I’m a harmony guy rather than a melody guy, and that I often prefer B&N pictures (and een more that “gray”, full lack and full white). Just to share impressions :slight_smile:

I realize it will be difficult without having the instrument in front of you, but can you expand on this comment?

What sort of digital artifacts were you hearing when switching between the filter pole settings? I understand that switching from, say, a 24 dB/oct setting to an 18 dB/oct setting is an abrupt transition, but that’s the nature of the beast. Were you referring to something else?

Were there other mod destinations that you can recall hearing digital artifacts on?

Regarding front panel controls vs menu items or multifunction buttons, I seem to be the opposite. :slight_smile: I get frustrated that there aren’t even more controls on the Sub37, particularly around the sequencer / arpeggiator.


Moose

Hi Moose, I was referring specifically to the glitchy sounds I heard when using the filter pole as a mod destination, i.e the LFO rapidly switching between the filter poles. With a bit of tweaking, the artifacts lessened, but they were still there.

Like I said in the OP, this sort of effect might actually be desirable to some, and is certainly quite interesting. But…for me, if I’m going to spend out on a moog I like it to be classic sounding and fully analog.

The Sub 37 is an incredible synth, and if I had lots of money I would definitely buy one of these as well as a Sub Phatty. But, since I have to choose between the 37 and the SP, I’ve chosen the Phatty purely because the extra features you get with the 37 do not quite, in my humble opinion, justify the higher price tag.

Hi stiiiiiiive,

Some interesting points. I totally agree that limitation can be an aid to creativity, in that you have to make more intelligent and considered choices about what to do with what you have in front of you. I particularly like your point about choosing which notes best convey a particular harmony.

I myself am also very much into harmony, and like I said in the OP, I found a few different ways to use the 37’s paraphony within the mere 20 minutes I had to play with it.

When all’s said and done, if I had enough money to get both the 37 and the Phatty, I would absolutely get both and make good use of each of them based on their individual features. Unfortunately, my budget only allows for one or the other, so I chose the Phatty. It just felt a lot nicer to play with because the interface is much less cluttered and I found that, for the price, it was able to do everything I like to do with moog synths and more.

That said, the button-per-feature front panel of the 37 is a very attractive prospect and I’m sure it only takes a short amount of time to get your head around it. The extra Modulator and the 2-note Paraphony are definitely advantages with the 37, but I can do without them for now. I tend to multilayer Monosynths anyway to create those harmonically rich textures that are possible with Duophony and Polyphony.

I concluded that the 37 is very cool, but I just couldn’t justify paying an extra £540 for it. I’ll maybe invest in one at some point in the future if I find myself with more to spend on gear, either that or just go all out and get a Voyager/Model D Reissue!

Hi Budge,

Welcome to the world of analog synths! The Sub 37 is a fantastic first choice.

I too thought that the convenience of the button-per-function front panel was pretty amazing, but in the end I just didn’t think it was worth the extra money.

It’s all down to what your main musical acitivities are. If you’re mostly a live player, the Sub 37 would definitely be the way to go because of its convenience, expressive features such as aftertouch and the onboard arpeggiator, and its added versatility with the extra LFO.

However, being primarily a studio musician and producer, the Sub Phatty felt like the better option. I usually have my synth linked up to my DAW and various other bits and pieces which more than make up for the absence of such things as onboard arpeggiators and extra modulation features, and the Sub Phatty software editor makes it just as easy to access advanced perameters such as filter pole switching.

With all of that taken into account, I thought I’d save myself the dosh and go for the Sub Phatty. However, believe me - if money wasn’t an issue, I’d more than welcome a Sub 37 into my setup as well.

You’ve chosen a great synth, I’m sure you’ll get the best from it. Happy new gear!

Thanks bud! Haven’t recorded anything yet I’ve been too busy tweaking the dials and listening to the results!

You’ve found your instrument, which is what matters the most :slight_smile:

The filter pole switching is analogue (the whole signal path is analogue). However the outputs from each pole is never the same, so when you switch you get a discontinuity in the analog domain. A quick fade out/in of poles would alleviate that, but of course we’re talking about a different and more expensive to implement feature then (it would need e.g. 4 dedicated VCAs). For what it’s worth I’ve never experienced any “digital artefacts” in the Sub 37. On the contrary the digital side, which generates the modulation signals, is very smooth and clean.