The (Un)Official Rogue Moog thread

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I’m really liking this forum so far. You guys are pretty knowledgable… if you don’t mind, I’d like to pick your brains for some questions :bulb:

I saw the Official MG-1 thread, and wanted to start one for the Rogue. Being that it’s the only analog synth I own currently. :wink: I noticed that there are several others here who also have or had a Rogue. I have a few questions, some of which were partly answered by reading through the Rogue and MG-1 threads.

Firstly… the more technical aspects fly over my head unless it’s explained in caveman terms. Not because I’m a Neanderthal, but because I just don’t fully understand the deeper technical stuff no matter how much I try to read up on it. I just know that when I flip a switch or move a slider, I get a certain result. I don’t know the science of why. Maybe I don’t need to. :wink: Also, as I’ve mentioned in another thread, the only other analog gear I have is the MF-102.

I would like to learn more about what I can do with the CV / Gate on my Rogue. Apparently you can use that to control another, compatible CV / Gate synth, or vice-versa. I’ve considered getting an MG-1 if only because of its similarity to the Rogue, yet with some slight differences. (Most of which I only know from looking at pictures of the MG-1’s front panel.) Separate waveforms and octaves for each osc, “bell tone,” polyphony, and pink noise instead of white noise. Is that about all?

I like to keep things simple, partly because I don’t know a whole heck of a lot. I’m not even that much of a musician, I’ve made some stuff but it’s mostly experimental or ambient in nature. I want to learn more though. Anyways, I’ve been thinking about getting a MIDI to CV converter that would work well with my Rogue. I want to be able to program a song on my computer and send it out through the MIDI ports I have, into a converter and then into the Rogue, and then record it. Any recommendations for a decent, not-too-big-of-a-pain-in-the-ass, MIDI - CV converter? I read that the Kenton Pro-2000 works great with the MG-1.

As for getting more sounds out of my Rogue, I’m considering the MF-105 MuRF and the MF-103 Phaser. I’m glad Moog Music put out that Sonic Infinity DVD, as it helped me understand better what each of the stomp boxes does when sounds are put through them. I think I might even have figured out something I can do with an old Casio drum machine I have that has indivual mono outputs for each sound… I already know they can trigger my Rogue to some degree…

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I don’t think I can give you any advice as you know as much as I do! :slight_smile:

But I just wanted to say, that case is brilliant! I used to gig my Rogue packed into a little suitcase and while it did the job, it certainly didn’t make as good an impression as turning up with that swanky case!

Makes me wish I wasn’t crap at woodwork :cry:

Ooh, nearly forgot - there was a thread on here about using the Ring Mod pedal as an extra oscillator (from the Squarewave cadre, I think?). Have you tried that?

I apologise in advance if I’ve got that wrong, I haven’t got the Ring Mod myself.

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If you aren’t scared of a soldering Iron check out Synhouse for adding Midi to your Moog:
http://www.synhouse.com/

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my rogue is still in the hospital. ive tested all voltage regulators, resoddered almost every connection and nothing has changed the sound yet. (it just sounds like am radio static, but you can really faintly hear the tone changing as you press keys) does anyone have any suggestions on what else i can check that might be causing my problems? thanks

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Not afraid of soldering, but I am a bit afraid of drilling out in my Rogue’s casing :astonished: It looks like there might be a way to avoid that by simply having the MIDI connector dangling out the side of the case or something. Though that would look quite silly :smiley: I have to wonder though, would adding this MIDI input allow the Rogue to then send the interpreted signals through the CV / Gate to another synth?

And along those lines, what about the Microcon II? I thought I had read somewhere that with its MIDI input, it can act as a MIDI to CV / Gate converter. Is this true? As for the other way around, can the Microcon II be controlled through CV / Gate by the Rogue? Is the Microcon II worth getting to begin with?

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eh…it’s JUST a rouge dude…we’re not talking about a Mini or Sonic Six here…

It’s just a low end model…don’t worry about drilling it…everyone loves modifications to old synths, nobody pays much more for a 20 year old, mint, low end these days…they’d much rather have a nicely upgraded & slightly modded midi capable synth then one without that is shiny…

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Alright… I finally bought some stereo cables to try out the CV Gate between my Rogue and MG-1. The Rogue can control the MG-1 and it works excellently; both instruments are playing the same notes. The only thing is, I can’t play the MG-1 to control the Rogue. It works sometimes, but even then it’s only for a second. Like I had just quickly tapped one of the Rogue’s keys. I have sustain set to “on” for both synths, so the Rogue ought to be holding the same notes that I’m holding on the MG-1. Right?

So why isn’t it working? Is there something wrong with my Rogue, which doesn’t allow it to be controlled by the MG-1? Or is there something wrong with my MG-1, which doesn’t allow it to control the Rogue? Or is it something else entirely… someone told me that you have to fiddle with the stereo jacks, pulling them halfway out to get it to work a certain way. Wha…? I tried that, and got some weird sounds out of both synths. Kind of cool actually. But it wasn’t doing what I wanted it to do (control the Rogue with the MG-1).

I’ve hooked up my drum machine’s bass kick output into my Rogue and triggered the Rogue to play a note. So I know that the Rogue can be triggered… even by half-arsed methods. (I used a mono ¼" cable.) I’m not answering my own question… just trying to provide as much info as possible. :wink:

I’d appreciate any help. I need to know what is up with the CV Gate before I buy a custom-built MIDI to CV converter. I don’t want it to work with one synth but not the other… speaking of…

I’ve found a better solution, The MIDI to CV converter I’m getting will have two outputs, each with its own selectable MIDI channel. Otherwise I would have to get two MIDI jacks, which would cost about $50 more than the converter I’m planning to get. That $50 will go towards the mixer that I need to buy anyway. Thanks for the suggestion though :slight_smile:

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Well, I’m gonna eat my words. I got that custom DINsync box, and have messed around with it a few times (been somewhat busy lately). Before anyone asks, yes, I’ve emailed them with the problems I’m about to voice here :wink: I used my Yamaha DX-11 to trigger notes on the Rogue, and they do trigger. But there’s a tremolo or vibrato or whatever going on that isn’t there when I unhook the cables going to the DINsync. I’ve hooked up my MG-1 to the same channel on the DINsync box, but I don’t notice the tremolo problem that the Rogue seems to have. I messed with the tuning trim pots on the DINsync, I used different cables (mono ¼" and stereo ¼"), but nothing changed the tremolo on the Rogue. DINsync weren’t very helpful in their email reply, so I’ll have to email them again. But I think I’ve found out the problem, partially. The “Rate” knob (whatever it really is) on the Rogue is affecting the notes when the DINsync box is controlling the Rogue. WTF? That knob altered the speed of the tremolo effect. To make sure of this, I switched the VCF on & off with some modulation effects and the rate is the same. And yes, I have the VCF switch set to “off” while messing with the DINsync box. :wink:

So I’m left wondering why the hell the Rate knob, or whatever it really is, affects the Rogue’s notes and gives them tremolo. Yet the MG-1 seems unaffected. Is there something wrong with my Rogue? That Synhouse MIDIjack is looking mighty tempting. I might just try to get a refund on the DINsync box and get two of those MIDIjacks and a MIDI patchbay of some kind… :confused:

I have some questions about the MIDIjack. I don’t see this mentioned in their FAQ page, and figured some of you might know the answer. I want to be able to use my MF-102 as an extra Osc, which requires the use of the CV jacks on my Rogue. If I get one of those MIDIjacks, install it, and switch it on, will the CV Gate end up being bypassed? That would kind of suck. It doesn’t seem like that will happen, based on what I’ve read on Synhouse’s site.

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Spike,

There’s alot of different kinds of “trigger” signals. The trigger that you’re sending the Rogue from your Din Sync convertor may trigger your Moogs but it’s probably not the “right” kind of trigger. For example, it’s probably a voltage trigger, and the kind of trigger that Rogues and MG-1s use is called a S-trig (I’m pretty sure this is what they use). The S-trig is the standard type of trigger for Moogs and is used on most of them. I used to own an MG-1, and I’m pretty sure it was S-trig. However, most other manufactures use V-trig. With drum machines, it’s a little different, and I’ve found that many types of triggers work when interfacing to and from them.

So, long story short, it’s almost definitely not the right trigger. So any responce you get from your Moogs is as good as it’s likely to get without inserting some circuitry between the two things you’re interfacing. It is possible to convert a V-trig to an S-trig, and there are special cables that you can buy with the circuits built in. It’s a little more complicated doing the reverse, S-trig to V-trig. But you’re trying to sync the moog to the drum box, so it’s probably not a problem.

To use the extra Ocs on the MF 102, you need an input on your synth. I don’t think the Rogue has an audio input, does it? You could connect the osc to your amp but it won’t have any gating or filtering. So, it will just be a continuous note, although you could control what note it is.

When you use the Midi on the synhouse midijack the CV/Gate is disabled. This is true of most all Midi/CV convertors, except for modern synths that have CV and Midi the can function at the same time (most of these new synths actually work as Midi to CV convertors).
The Synhouse convertor is pretty cool because it fits inside the synth, but other convertors, like the Kenton, have much more features (but they’re more expensive too).

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Thanks for the reply Eric. I should have been more specific about the DINsync box I bought… I forgot that I hadn’t posted about getting the box. (I did on another forum I post at.) Okay… DINsync can do custom orders, so I ordered a MIDI to CV converter with two separate CV output channels. Meaning that I can assign a MIDI channel (1 through 16) to either of the CV outputs. It cost almost double the cost of their regular MIDI to CV converter, being that it was like having two of them in one unit.

The CV box actually has both types of Triggers, V and S. The Rogue is supposed to use the S-trig, which I have been using. I tried using the V-trig just to see what would happen, and it was definitely off-sounding :slight_smile: I’m wondering if maybe they didn’t build the box quite right. Or I’m just not using it right, although I’m not sure what else I could try messing around with to get this thing to work properly :smiley:

The Rogue does have an audio input. So the MF-102 is a great companion piece with the Rogue, even more so than I thought it would be when I first bought the 102 several years ago. I just need to build a “port-a-pot” to get the 102’s oscillator in tune with my Rogue. Hehe…

Sucks to hear that the CV Gate is disabled while the MIDI input is being used. It makes sense, I suppose. The MIDI being an input only, and the CV Gate being two-way (or whatever). Still, it would be neat if the CV Gate still worked. Or if there was a way to modify the installation…

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It’s entirely possible that your convertor isn’t exactly calibrated for ideal triggering of the Rogue. You might try the port-a-pot on this trigger signal as well. Some S-trigs have different threshold levels, so that anything below 2 volts, for example, will trigger the switch. So, try to adjust the signal, or maybe put add resistor to the signal (not sure what value resistor).

I’ve been using an Ernie Ball volume pedal to scale the CV input on the MF102. It’s scales correctly over several octaves, and I’m amazed at how well it sounds. It’s a really great sounding oscillaor! If you could only change the wave form, it would be perfect.

The keyboard CV is disconnected so that theres only one voltage source going to the synth. Because it’s disconnected, the outs don’t work either. I’ve read about some people doing a simple modification to add a switch to the Midi port so that you can leave the MIDI cable plugged in and just flip the switch when you want to go back to CV/Gate control.
I’ve been thinking about the same thing, and I think you could modify the CV and Gate outs so that they transmit the signals comming from the MiDI/CV box. You would’nt want to send voltage from more than one source to the input. However, I don’t see what would be wrong with wiring the CV outs to the inputs so that they carry the signals comming in to another synth (like a multiple on a modular synth). Or you could just add two more jacks to act as multiples for the signal.
I think I’m gonna try this myself.

I have a Kenton Pro Solo MkII. It does all kinds of stuff like Portamento, single/multiple trigger, internal LFO that syncs to MIDI clock, and alot of other stuff. It can send S-trig and V-trig and different scales of CV and can be calibrated for specific synths. It also has an aux output for the LFO or Midi CCs, and a Din Sync out. It’s a great box, but it costs $200.

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One thing I was wondering. Is this is true about the Rogue?

If so, it would explain why the noise just seems to be looping. You can hear a sort of “bump” as the noise is going on and on. It annoys me to no end, ever since I first got my Rogue. And it figures that this would happen, because I use the noise source a lot. Speaking of noise, what is the difference between pink and white noise? I have it in my head that white noise is much “wispier” sounding than pink noise, which is “harsher.”


Does that mean the CV Gate is permanently disconected when a Synhouse MIDIjack is installed in a Rogue? That would suck. Or do you mean the CV Gate is disconnected only while the MIDI is being used?

I’ve been thinking about the same thing, and I think you could modify the CV and Gate outs so that they transmit the signals comming from the MiDI/CV box. You would’nt want to send voltage from more than one source to the input. However, I don’t see what would be wrong with wiring the CV outs to the inputs so that they carry the signals comming in to another synth (like a multiple on a modular synth). Or you could just add two more jacks to act as multiples for the signal.
I think I’m gonna try this myself.

Most of that flew over my head, but it sounds interesting. Let us know how it goes!

I have a Kenton Pro Solo MkII. It does all kinds of stuff like Portamento, single/multiple trigger, internal LFO that syncs to MIDI clock, and alot of other stuff. It can send S-trig and V-trig and different scales of CV and can be calibrated for specific synths. It also has an aux output for the LFO or Midi CCs, and a Din Sync out. It’s a great box, but it costs $200.

I paid about $150 total, including shipping, for my DINsync box. I had done some research before buying it, but I don’t remember seem a Kenton product that low in price. I wouldn’t have minded shelling out an extra $50 for that Solo mkII… argh… are they still being manufactured?

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The thing about the Rogue is this, and I mean no disrepect (I’ve owned and loved an MG-1 myself), but it’s about as cheap of a product as anyone could possibly make. In many ways, it’s probably among the worst synths ever made. But it has a Moog filter of some sort, an audio input, and a certain charm (and a Moog logo). It can be a cool little noise maker and it definitely has some tricks. But to take any of it’s features and compare it to most any synth in it’s current price range ($450-650), well…
That said, If I owned one, I’d probably keep it. You have to just kind of love it for what it is.

No, it’s only disconnected while using MIDI, and if it’s not, you don’t want to use them at the same time anyway (you shouldn’t play the keyboard while sending MIDI either). It’s not recommended to send two voltage signals to the same input

I wouldn’t have minded shelling out an extra $50 for that Solo mkII… argh… are they still being manufactured?

You can buy the Solo MkII from kenton directly for $199 plus shipping from UK, or get it from a US distributor for $199 total (mine included free shipping).