If I go into the controller’s menu I see a source category and a destination category. Is this something only accessible by the sub menu or did the firmware update make it obsolete because now we can use physical knobs? I am having trouble understanding what those two functions, source and destination are for but have an inkling that this is the parameter that gives the Sub the power of modular? Is that right? I have tried to use them a couple of times (cant remember what I sourced from and to) with no audible effect. I am certain this is not due to error on my sub 37 but just that I don’t understand what I am doing.
If the source and destination sub menu is not obsolete would someone give me an example of parameters I could plug into those two destinations that would be obvious to my ears? Thank you all.
Even if most destinations can be assigned by holding the MOD X DEST button while turning a knob or pressing a button, there are still a few destinations that aren’t on the front panel, )e.g. Arpeggiator Gate Length (that particular parameter is in the PRESET->AREPEGGIATOR menu). There is no such assignment mechanism for the sources, so the menu is a must for those.
I am having trouble understanding what those two functions, source and destination are for but have an inkling that this is the parameter that gives the Sub the power of modular? Is that right? I have tried to use them a couple of times (cant remember what I sourced from and to) with no audible effect. I am certain this is not due to error on my sub 37 but just that I don’t understand what I am doing.
Yes, this is where some of that “modular power” of the Sub 37 lies. You can view each MOD section as a virtual programmable patch cable with a lot of extras (such as a built in LFO, sync, simultaneous pitch, filter and programmable destinations etc.).
If the source and destination sub menu is not obsolete would someone give me an example of parameters I could plug into those two destinations that would be obvious to my ears? Thank you all.
Try this:
start with an init patch
bring up the MOD 1 menu,
set PGM DST to VCO 1 OCTAVE (you don’t actually need to use the menu for that destination…)
set PGM SRC to NOISE LFO
turn up MOD 1 AMT all the way
Now play some notes and use the mod wheel to bring in the effect of the MOD 1 section.
The reason you need to use the mod wheel here is because in an init path, the MOD 1 menu’s MOD WHEEL is set to 100%. This means that 100% of the effect of MOD 1 is controlled by the mod wheel. At 0% the MOD 1 section is not dependent on the position of the mod wheel. The MOD 2 section has all the controllers that affect the MOD sections output (MOD WHEEL, VELOCITY, AFTERTOUCH, CTRL4 AMT) set to 0% in the init patch, so MOD 2 is in full effect by default.
Come to think of it, perhaps the default MOD WHEEL at 100% for MOD 1 “tricked” you when you experimented with this?
I just called Taylor over at Moog and had him walk me through some tests and he says it is working just fine. Maybe there was some subtle detail about lost in communication between you and I?
Fellow Moog forum member dave0 suggested that perhaps you didn’t have MOD 1 DEST set to EG TIME / PGM (would happen automatically if you use the “press DEST + tweak knob” method of assigning). Dave0 has posted this suggestion, but his posting is awaiting moderation (and will appear later), so I pass this on to speed up communication.
BTW, the MOD SOURCE switch also needs to be in the F.EG / PGM position for the programmable source to take effect, similar to the MOD 1 DEST selection set to EG TIME / PGM . I.e. The …PGM selection must be made for the source and/or destination, depending on what you’re trying to achieve.
Ok so the last post from you and dave0 (thanks man) did the trick, I did not have either set to eg time. Now the effect is working. The sub menu is the last part of this synth that I have not explored and am looking forward to seeing what i can do with it. First synth ever for me and wow what a synth it is.
Cool! Now that you’ve been deep diving, as it were, you should find the rest of the synth easy to work with. The MOD sections are quite powerful and therefore a little more involved than the rest. Since you were already exploring the mod menu, I mistakenly assumed that the source and destination selections were set to the F. EG / PGM and EG TIME / PGM positions.
And yes, it’s one helluva synth
Edit to clarify how the mode section front panel labelling relates to the mod menu settings:
The F. EG / PGM setting for the MOD SOURCE switch and the EG TIME / PGM setting for the MOD DEST button/LEDs are the keys here, as you now know.
The F. EG and EG TIME part of those labels refer to Filter Envelope Generator and the Envelope Generator Time - those are simply the default settings in the MOD menu for PGM SRC and PGM DEST in an “init” patch (If you press and hold down he PANEL / INIT button in the PROGRAMMING section the synth will be initialized with a simple tone and all parameters at “reasonable” default settings. From the factory, all presets from bank 9 preset 7 and up have init patches saved to them)
The PGM part of those labels refer to the fact that these are the user **Program**mable source and destination settings.
So when you have changed the source and/or destinations in the mod menu away from the defaults, the F. EG and EG TIME part of those labels are no longer relevant, but the PGM part is. This may not be obvious the first time you dive into the Sub 37.
OK, here is one that I sometimes use for expressive vibrato in soloing sounds. It uses the MOD 2 section for the actual vibrato, with aftertouch controlling the amount. Then the MOD 1 section is set up to control the rate of the MOD 2 LFO using the mod wheel:
Start with an init patch and set up the MOD sections and menus as follows:
MOD 1 panel section:
- MOD SOURCE = F.EG / PGM (we are going to set the programmable source in the MOD 1 menu)
- MOD DEST = LFO 2 RATE (this is the default in the init patch)
- PITCH AMT = 0
- FILTER AMT = 0
- MOD AMT = 2.5 (this sets the range of vibrato speed, as controlled by the mod wheel)
MOD 1 menu:
- MOD WHEEL: 100%
- MOD SRC: CONST ON (constant on means that this is a steady signal)
- MOD DST: doesn't matter, MOD DEST = LFO 2 RATE is selected on the panel
MOD 2 panel section:
- LFO RATE = 6 (this sets the lowest vibrato speed, when the mod wheel is at 0)
- MOD SOURCE = triangle wave
- PITCH AMT = 0.5 (this sets the range of vibrato amount, as controlled by aftertouch)
- FILTER AMT = 0
- MOD AMT = 0
MOD 2 menu:
- AFTERTOUCH: 100%
- MOD SRC: doesn't matter, MOD SOURCE = triangle wave is selected on the panel
- MOD DST: doesn't matter, MOD AMT = 0 is set on the panel
As you see, there’s not a lot you have to set up in the menus to get this going; the init patch has “neutral” values for most things.
With the mod wheel set to the middle position, you get a normal’ish vibrato speed, with quite slow and fast at the minimum and maximum wheel positions. If you want to change the range of it, use the LFO RATE knob in the MOD 2 section, and the MOD AMT knob in the MOD 1 section.
This example is not the most esoteric, but it’s hopefully useful. It only describes the modulations scheme - now you make a nice sound using the rest of the synth, and tweak the modulation to taste!
(I hope I didn’t make any errors in the recipe, I don’t have the synth in front of me…)
