Hello everyone I am a new owner of a Sub 37 tribute but I have a couple of questions for anyone that has one.
I play bass keyboard in a folky jam oriented band. I had been playing on a Korg M50 but wanted a more authentic sound and it was down to a bass piano from Vintage Vibes (very expensive at 3500.00) or a Sub 37-- less money and more sounds. A friend told me that a Sub 37 would fit the bill really well and be a lot more versatile so I bought one. I cannot seem to get the “right” bass sounds to fit in with folky jam music (think Grateful Dead). Am I just doing it wrong or is this just not the right instrument for me? Any insight from you all would be greatly appreciated.
Also any examples of bands playing similar music to what I do that use a synth for bass? Thanks.
Hi Franklinstower - welcome to the forum! A Rhodes(?) bass piano is an electro-acoustic instrument with a rather distinct timber that may not be the easiest sound to emulate on the Sub 37 synthesizer. If you give us a track with an example of the exact sound that you are looking for, someone here may give it a try (I do not have a Sub 37 yet myself). How experienced are you at synthesis? The presets even with some tweaking may not provide what you need, requiring that you synthesize new bass patches from scratch. For me the most challenging part of emulating an elecro-acoustic instrument is usually getting the initial attack sound down accurately.
^This. I am by nature an acoustic player, and the Moog thing is something I enjoy simply because I enjoy it. But I have not yet truly fit the Sub37 into an acoustic setting, and I’m not quite sure how. Rock Band? Oh yes, Baby!
Surely this can be done. My thought would be to go after smooth, mellow bass sounds similar to Stevie Wonder’s Innervisions stuff. Funky but fluid, as if you were a really cool, groovy upright player. Do you have a drummer, and what kind of grooves will need to play?
Yes I am talking about the Rhodes bass piano but in this case it would be a custom made brand new one from a company called Vintage Vibes. Here is a link to the bass piano- it is set in with a bunch of their other custom built instruments but it gives you an idea of the right sound-
As far as where I am at in synthesis- I have made five bass sounds from scratch and I like all of them but in certain songs I play along with to the Dead it doesn’t seem to fit – it does in others though.
I do have a drummer- a very unusual drummer who does not use a kit but instead uses various indigenous drums put together into his own kit. The other member is a professional classical violin player who is trying to switch genres into playing improvisational violin. T’he Sub 37 sounds great with her violin by the way…
A little background - I am a new musician just a couple of years into practice but I do practice diligently two hours a day-- or more sometimes. I started out after having a dream where a guy told me to play bass on keyboard-- so I did. So that is how I got to looking for the right bass sound on keyboard-- and I am still looking. I don’t want to use recordings of someone else s playing like on my korg m50. It either has to be a sound I design or I have to Get an actual bass piano. It would be better if the Sub 37 could fit the bill because it does so much more and I have grown to really enjoy playing it.
I would say that in that particular video that at least 50% of that bass growl is coming from that Ampeg B15 the bass piano is plugged into. It’s probably the most recorded classic bass amp and has a very distinctive sound.
Sorry it’s not much help, just wanted to point out the amp it was plugged into.
Good luck with getting your sound sorted out.
That does help-- and it is something that has held me back from purchasing the bass piano. It is a very rare purchase and not something that company makes a lot of so they don’t have a sound demo for it like they do for their other pianos. I don’t doubt that the sound of the piano is going to be really nice but just wouldn’t mind hearing it pure with its own internal bass and treble settings.
Any Sub 37 owners please feel free to chime in on my topic.
I wonder if the company could send you a sound file of its pure sound if you email them. That way, you could hear and also be able to mess about with it.
Tech 21 make a pedal that is an Ampeg SVT in a box. Wonder if that has a B15 setting? Could get you in the right area if it does.
^The music is Pop/Rock a la U2 or Radiohead, and the Sub37 is just one of several 'boards in use. We tend to play melody lines rather than “solos” and the Sub37 is great for carrying a strong lead, also Theremin sounds, Taurus Bass sounds, and my favorite stock patch Mushrooms in a Cornfield for some epic organ-like tones. I also use EXP Pedals for Filter and Volume, and this allows me to come-and-go between the vocal lines, like a pedal steel player might do.
FWIW: I stay out of the bass player’s range, so I’m not doing much on the low notes. Also, choice of amp will be a key decision no matter which instrument, since it will be responsible for the air you move.
+1 for the VT Bass.
I use it a lot with my Little Phatty. My concern was to get a more “rocknroll” sound, i.e. something that could get closer to the sound of an amped electric bass (the LP is in charge of the bass parts).
I’m playing in a duo with a guitarist -we also have a drum machine and we both sing- and sometimes synths are not easy to mix with the guitar. The VT Bass helps doing that and I obtain something I find more natural.
I use another keyboard for pads, leads etc and for that one, a ProCo RAT and/or a very short spring reverb was the key to get something more consistent.
A question for you. Is it a money concern that has you using the LP instead of using a bass guitar or do you not play guitar (like me). It sounds like it is less than ideal for you so why use it?
Actually it’s more apropriate for me because I’m a keyboard player who plays bass parts rather than a bass player who plays on a synth.
I can play guitar and/or bass, I know where notes are, I’ve already played for my own works or been jamming with friends, but I’m not sure I could play it in a band (with the exception of some experimental stuffs and maybe some basic garage or grunge stuffs haha ).
Plus the idea behind the project I mentioned earlier is a guitar+synths duo. I play bass parts with the left hand and harmonic parts on another polyphonic keyboard. I play bass parts because they are needed, not because I was initially assigned to bass duties (well it has become so with time).
Finally, as you’ve probably understood, it’s far from being a money concern.
A Fender Rhodes Piano Bass is a pretty tall order for an analog synth (and vice versa). Two different animals. No matter how good a turkey burger is it still aint beef, and nobody wants a giant greasy 14 pound clump of ground meat on thanksgiving.
I’d say that if it’s a guitar + synths duo then embrace the synthiness of the moog bass sounds. Could be fun.
Or… you might be able to come up with a sound that fulfills the same sonic role as a Piano Bass. While it may not be the real deal the psychoacoustics could work in the mix. Are you looking for the biting sound when the keys are struck hard on the Rhodes?
Yeah-- Ive decided to take the Sub 37 back. It is returnable within 30 days where I bought it. It is difficult to do because while it is not the bass i am looking for for my main sound it is just an amazing synth and I am sold on analogue now. I have never played on a synth before having this 37 and am really impressed with it. Just cannot afford to keep both unfortunately-- at least for now.
Now I am going to look into what to buy to add effects to my bass piano. I’ve looked at the moogerfooger and will have to do some more research into various pedals and such. For sure need good wah.
Thanks everyone and sadly I wont have a reason for being on this site anymore since I will no longer own a synth.
Franklinstower - best of luck with your music and your band. One of the reasons that its hard to synthesize the sound of a Rhodes Bass Piano on any analog synth is that the harmonic intervals of struck metal rods are different from most acoustic instruments and analog synth waveforms. This is especially prominent with the bright overtones produced when a note is first struck. Yes you can offset the oscillators and use other tricks but even the emulation of a piano sound (where strings are struck) has some of the same challenge. I hope you truly enjoy your new Rhodes Bass Piano!
Thanks a lot man. A Moog is still in my future though having had this one for the last couple of weeks its been just amazing-- cant justify the purchase though when I still need my staple instrument.
I notice a bunch of effects pedals that Moog offers but do they have one more expensive unti that does a lot of effects for bass? I really need wah which comes from envelopes but would also want more than that.
Hey Franklinstower. Congrats on your decision to get the Vintage Vibes I must say their pianos make me sweat, as well as the Vibanet…
If you’re sold on analogue synths -I know we’re on a Moog forum- maybe you could check out other brands; they may have something more compatible with your new acquisition. Arturia Minibrute? Used Little Phatty? Just saying
If you plan to plug your VV directly in a mixer, you can still consider the Tech 21 VT Bass or any other model in their Character Series.
I am not set up to demo the VV-- sorry. Really looking forward to getting it- six weeks out after you order it though… What I really want to do is be able to make psychedelic sounds with it for the more spacey parts of our music. I will check out those synths you recommend and see what fits – any other suggestions would be great. I saw a demo recently with like five moogerfooger pedals all set up with a bass guitar and it sounded really good and trippy.
I ended up not getting the VV piano. I opted with the sub 37 instead. I just could not get the sub 37 out of my head for some reason so I reordered it.
I found a bass setting that seems to fit perfectly into the mix of the music I play even though it does not sound like a bass guitar. But it sounds perfect.
Filter is at 320Hz
Both oscillators at 16 and are hard synced, triangle wave and set at 5
No feedback, no sub oscillator, no resonance and no multidrive.
Eg amount is up just a little.
Attack is max and no release or sometimes I run it with the tiniest release you can get.
Keyboard tracking is 1:1
This setup sound amazing for any rock and roll bass and it is better than passable while playing with acoustic instruments. I was having dreams of all the sounds I had been getting out of the sub after I took it back…
So that is how I got to looking for the right bass sound on keyboard-- and I am still looking. I don’t want to use recordings of someone else s playing like on my korg m50. It either has to be a sound I design or I have to Get an actual bass piano. It would be better if the Sub 37 could fit the bill because it does so much more and I have grown to really enjoy playing it.
I must say their pianos make me sweat, as well as the Vibanet…