Polyphonic ideas and ramblings

The Moog Forum Minimoog Forum
1

Hi all.

My first post here, so forgive me if these ideas have been rehashed ad infinitum. (I have done a bit of searches and reading old threads.)

Short intro first: I am old enough to have wanted the first minimoog, unfortunately without the financial means to make it more than a dream. I have had a number of synths since then, both analog and digital. I have a home studio, but haven’t played in a band or live since the early 80s. My current keyboard wish list includes a Yamaha CP-1 stage piano, a Yamaha Tyros (version 4 being introduced on the 17th) and of course - finally - a Moog.

I noticed a few threads where the subject of polyphony was covered. Now I do not want to argue whether a polyphonic Moog is desirable. Some people like blonde hair, some dark, some long hair, some short. To each his/her own.

But given that the subject is of interest and debate, and I suddenly have found myself among the ones toying with the concept, here are some thoughts:

  1. The Voyager XL offers a keyboard large enough for two hand playing. But while it does support multi-key messages, I understand that those are pitch only.
  2. Voyager already comes in a rack mount edition (RME), however, this is a stand alone version, that is it has everything but the keyboard and pad.
  3. While multiple RMEs could be triggered on separate notes, I am not sure how one would set that up today, unless one had a master keyboard that could prioritize keys among them.

So the idea is: What if Moog introduced black box units (BBUs) that had all the oscillators and other circuitry, but none of the buttons on the RME. That could be a fairly low height rack unit I assume, by making it deeper. These units would be controlled by a Voyager keyboard or a full RME. MIDI maybe is not quite advanced enough for the purpose(?), but we’ll assume some kind of protocol that could transmit all the system and song messages to the BBUs. There would need to be some internal logic in the “master” that would detect the number of connected “slaves” , and distribute the messages among them. Whether that be first or last key priority or other is among the details I am sure they can work out. The keyboard should be upgraded to be able to send all messages, not just pitch.

This way, polyphony would be be a matter of economy. (Says the man who could not afford the monophonic one.) Just add the number of BBUs you need - and can afford. Each of them would be a full sound unit in its own right, and could in theory even be separately programmed. (So a split keyboard could have different voices for the left and right hand. Or combine all monophonic. Or any combination, say you use one for a left hand bass line, and two or three for a really fat lead.)

Arguably, a BBU would not be considerably cheaper than an RME, given that it is the electronics that are expensive, not the knobs. Possibly that would open for an even simpler unit, one that just contained the oscillators and no internal logic and just fed the signal back to master. Then I guess they would not be able to be individually programmed.

I do not really have the tech skills to decide whether I am close to knowing what I talk about. So feel free to shoot the concept down on technical merits. But as I said: If you think that the Moog “should” be monophonic because it always has been, or because you feel that polyphony is too much dictated by traditional chord progression, then maybe that belongs in another thread. (Excuse me if this wish is contrary to the habits of this forum.) As for the financial side: Yes, it would be expensive I am sure, but would I be tempted to buy a couple of BBUs? Yes. (And then one more, and then one more, and you know how that story goes…)

Are there already people doing something similar using RMEs today, btw?

Geir :slight_smile:

2

Silence is the new loud, eh?

Oh well, I suspected it was a weird idea even before i posted it. Thanks for reading. I guess if I ever can afford a real Moog I will be more active here…

Geir :slight_smile:

3

Welcome to the forum.

Certianly your ideas are welcome. We have all tried to solve this problem of getting that good Moog sound in a box we can afford.

Your ideas are welcome and much appreciated, but sometimes the forum is slower on the weekends.

Please stick around regardless of whether or not you own Moogs, we’d be glad to have you.


Eric

4

The idea for a knobless expander module has been around for a while (it was one of the first things I though of when I joined here).

Unfortunately, it isn’t as simple as putting a Voyager or LP main PCB in a rack enclosure. For a start the boards are quite large and may not fit in a 19" box. You might start to get somewhere by going to surface mount components or multiple layers sandwiched together. But redesigns can be very costly.

There was mention a few weeks ago of a “Slim Phatty” patent being issued recently, which means an expander box could be in the works :slight_smile:

5

Thanks!

Yeah, the form factor is a valid concern. (Of course, I haven’t really had a chance to inspect the insides of a Voyager, since I don’t have one.) Arguably, this is the downside of Moog being so unique. Had this been another business, say a computer vendor, standards would have been a fact and “no one” today would issue a system that broke those standards.

But the RME is already available, and I assume that says that the components as such does fit in a rack size enclosure. All I am suggesting is removing all the buttons on the front, and then possibly being able to lay out things horizontally that today sits vertically. I am guessing it would not be a single height rack unit, but that is less of an issue since most of us would only ever afford a few. Also the power supply could be an external unit in a rack system, saving more room (and heat) inside the unit.

Maybe in the spirit of the old synth pioneers someone should take a RME, open it and get the old soldering iron out and try… :slight_smile:

But size isn’t the main problem, I guess. For me, apart from the polyphony issues, the questions are whether such unit would be A. cheaper to manufacture than the RME, and B. popular enough that cost savings would equal a significantly lower street price than the RME. If not, what I suggested as a polyphonic solution - if at all possible - could equally well be implemented in the current RME, but I guess that would be too expensive for most. So if a “BBU” could be made signicantly cheaper, that might be just what would make this commercially viable. (I have this feeling I actually asked a Moog rep about this once, and he said it wouldn’t be cheaper. But then I have these dreams where I am rich and famous too…)

Geir :slight_smile: